Which Notes On The Stave Are Which Pitches?, Doing some homework before buying violin! Options

[singerpianist]

I'm getting a violin in just under a couple of weeks, and have never played one in my life! I've just realised that I'm a bit confused as to how to find the note on the violin that's shown on the stave...for example, if the stave says the A above middle C, how do I know which string I need to play on the violin?

I know this is the same for, say, the piano, but I guessing it's easier to tell on the piano seeing as the notes are all laid out straight in order, whereas on the violin (and other string instruments) it's in a confusing order!!

And also, how far apart do you need to play to go up in semitones? I bet the lack of visible frets makes this really hard for beginners!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I'll probably find out this in violin books when I buy one, but I won't be able to get to a music shop (or have the money to) for another couple of weeks, so thought I'd ask you experts on here for some tips!!

Sorry if I didn't make any sense, and thanks in advance!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Laura

[Miss Ross]

This probably won't help, just to warn you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As you probably know, the strings are tuned in 5ths. The thickest is G and from there you have D, A and E (the thinnest string). The G is the first G below middle C, and the E is 2 above middle C, if you see what I mean.

Semi-tones are generally pretty close together, but then so are tones when you get far up the fingerboard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) It would be easier to show you than to try to write it down. Being 'musical' already, you shouldn't find it too hard to hear what you're doing, and you will get better with time.

Hope this helps a tiny bit, and have fun with your new violin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yay.gif) I see Rosie agrees with me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Rosie91]

You'll learn all this when you get your violin and have some lessons, but the lowest (thickest and furthest-left) string of the violin is the G below middle C. Then they go up in 5ths so you have D, A and E - so to answer your question, the A above middle C is the second-highest string on the violin. I wouldn't really say the notes are in a confusing order, they're in the same order as they are on a piano, it's just easier if after a few notes you move up on to the next string rather than continuing to climb up the same one! hope that made sense.

For most people, semitones in first position is having your fingers touching each other, rather than there being any gaps between them.

Are you going to have lessons or play by yourself?

good luck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: complete double-post with Miss Ross. Sorry!

[singerpianist]

You'll learn all this when you get your violin and have some lessons, but the lowest (thickest and furthest-left) string of the violin is the G below middle C. Then they go up in 5ths so you have D, A and E - so to answer your question, the A above middle C is the second-highest string on the violin. I wouldn't really say the notes are in a confusing order, they're in the same order as they are on a piano, it's just easier if after a few notes you move up on to the next string rather than continuing to climb up the same one! hope that made sense.

For most people, semitones in first position is having your fingers touching each other, rather than there being any gaps between them.

Are you going to have lessons or play by yourself?

good luck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm not allowed lessons, so I'll be teaching myself. That I know isn't recommended, but I don't have the money to pay for lessons (as I already have singing and piano lessons). But one of my music teachers at school plays the violin as their main instrument, so hopefully I'll be able to ask her for some help so long as she's not too busy!

Thanks Rosie91 and MissRoss for the explanations - that does help, but as you both said, it seems like it'll be easier to understand once I get the violin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Laura

[primrose]

You won't have much trouble working out how the fingering goes, but you'll need some help with practical stuff like how to hold the violin and the bow. Though it really isn't a substitute for a live teacher, you can learn a lot from professorv's videos on youtube. A good video is better than a bad teacher anyway.

[AmandaL]

While I appreciate money is tight for many these days, I develop a huge amount of angst, wailing and a knashing of teeth, when reading that yet another person is about to attempt the violin without even investing in a few lessons.

The violin is probably one of the least intuitive instruments to learn and if you get it wrong at the beginning, you could end up with an injury due to bad posture and/or make little or no progress because of ignorance in the fundamental basics.

Please, please try to get some help from a violin teacher. I know there are web-based videos and these may possibly be better than a very bad teacher, but the basics really should be learnt under the guidance of an experienced player and one who knows what correct technique is.

[Violin Hero]

Yeah bad habbits are very hard to kick.

My first teacher who I had for about 5 years was great at teaching but didn't help me correct some of the basics like bow hold and left arm.

I didn't realise it was wrong till I changed school and got a different teacher who told me I am going to have to change.

It took about 2 years to deal with it. I recently got a different teacher becuase I moved on a different schol for 6th form. My teacher couldn't believe some of the habbits I got into.

I did that with a teacher. Without a teach I would have done that all my career and become a very bad violinsit and never known how to do it correctly. Especially as I was told I had a natural talent on violin, and several other instruments I never took up!

Try and get at least a lesson a month, even with a tight budget. It will help you enormously and you will thank yourself for having the lessons.

[Violinia]

For most people, semitones in first position is having your fingers touching each other, rather than there being any gaps between them.

Littler people, or people with thin fingers, will have spaces between their fingers when playing semitones, bigger people or especially people with fat fingers, won't. But it's better to know in your head how the semitiones are meant to sound and let your ears guide you rather than having too many ideas of how close fingers are meant to be to each other. If you play one note wrong and then put another finger next to the last one, that note's going to be even more wrong than the last one, and so it goes on.

[primrose]

Littler people, or people with thin fingers, will have spaces between their fingers when playing semitones, bigger people or especially people with fat fingers, won't. But it's better to know in your head how the semitiones are meant to sound and let your ears guide you rather than having too many ideas of how close fingers are meant to be to each other.

Indeed. Having been repeatedly told by teachers that for a semitone the fingers should be touching, I eventually twigged (for myself) that this may be so for a violin, but it ain't so for a viola.

[Scurra]

I'm not allowed lessons, so I'll be teaching myself. That I know isn't recommended, but I don't have the money to pay for lessons (as I already have singing and piano lessons). But one of my music teachers at school plays the violin as their main instrument, so hopefully I'll be able to ask her for some help so long as she's not too busy!

Thanks Rosie91 and MissRoss for the explanations - that does help, but as you both said, it seems like it'll be easier to understand once I get the violin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Laura

Have a look online for video masterclasses: as has already been said, it'll be easier if you can see what you need to do.

If you have any problems when you've started learning, I'm sure people will be happy to help (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It can be tricky on your own... but once you've got the basic technique it gets easier. Learning to read music is always the hardest thing to learn when kids start an instrument - obviously there's no problem there, so I'm sure you'll have fun!


What kind of fiddle are you getting?

[Teigr]

Maybe you could find a string ensemble to play with? Then you could see how everyone else does things and pick up a few pointers. Plus it's fun and ensemble playing is good experience.

Your piano and singing background should make it easier for you to keep up, even if your playing isn't quite up to the mark. If there are bits that are beyond your technical ability, just miss them out and join in again when it gets to something you can manage. As long as you play in tune and don't get lost, you should be fine.
My string group is meant to be for grade 2 upwards, but as I'm self-taught I haven't done any grades. The lady who runs it encouraged me to go along anyway, and it's really good.

Something like that would mean you weren't completely on your own - if other people notice you doing something completely wrong I would guess they'll point it out - and it would be a lot cheaper than individual lessons.

I agree with AmandaL in principle - it's best to get some proper lessons to make sure you don't get into bad habits. But the financial and practical realities mean that there are always going to be some people who just get an instrument and go it alone. Bowed strings are among the worst instruments to chose if you're going to do that, but there are still going to be some people who decide to try. In those cases, finding a damage-limitation strategy is probably better than nothing.

T.

[AmandaL]

Maybe you could find a string ensemble to play with? Then you could see how everyone else does things and pick up a few pointers.

Assuming their technique is up to scratch........ there are a lot of good amateur string players out there, but there are also some shockingly bad ones too.

[primrose]

Maybe you could find a string ensemble to play with? Then you could see how everyone else does things and pick up a few pointers.

Assuming their technique is up to scratch........ there are a lot of good amateur string players out there, but there are also some shockingly bad ones too.

Especially in the sort of ensembles that might accept a beginner. This sort of thing can be fun, as long as the standard isn't far too high, but it's no way to learn how things ought to be done.

[Teigr]

Maybe you could find a string ensemble to play with? Then you could see how everyone else does things and pick up a few pointers.

Assuming their technique is up to scratch........ there are a lot of good amateur string players out there, but there are also some shockingly bad ones too.

Especially in the sort of ensembles that might accept a beginner. This sort of thing can be fun, as long as the standard isn't far too high, but it's no way to learn how things ought to be done.

I would imagine that any ensemble would have /someone/ who could show her how to tune the thing and who knows enough to point out any glaring problems (e.g. if she rests the neck of the violin on the heel of her hand).

My guess is that if she can't figure it out for herself and she's not going to have any real tuition, playing with an ensemble would be better than nothing.

T.

[smallperson]

Well, I'm teaching myself, and have been doing fine thus far. I understand why some people consider tuition irreplaceable (in some cases, it may be - I'm a linguist, and a tutor, so am very aware of how much scaffolding some people need), but not everyone needs a tutor. I'm teaching myself various other things, including languages that don't use roman script, so am accustomed to the levels of motivation necessary to teach oneself in a more challenging area.

I can't afford a tutor either (no ifs or buts - I can either teach myself to play a violin on hire, or not learn to play the violin at all. I'm enjoying my endeavours very much, but if I were forced to pay for tuition in order to continue, I'd have to return the violin to the hirer, and give up.

I've found lots of information online, and in charity shops (books, mostly). I have a fingering chart (I'm looking at it right now), and am trying to remember exactly where I found it. It's very useful, and if you can find one, you can print it of, and stick it somewhere visible. Otherwise, I worked out my finger positions, then attached a thin strip of post-it note at that point, to help me learn. It worked, and when I tried the violin I'm using now, I was chuffed to note that I didn't need the tape - I just shifted my fingers up and down the board a bit until the notes sounded right (I've been playing recorders for years, and have a clue about how things should sound).

I'll try and find this fingering chart for anyone who might be able to benefit.