Upper Strings Beginners' Thread, For learners up to Grade 3 standard Options

[primrose]

The 4th finger simply doesn't follow along with the rest. It's all very well my teacher saying keeping all 4 fingers poised above the strings, but the 4th finger simply won't! It's a little better than when I first started using it, but only a very little.

I think part of the problem is that one starts learning to play with the first three fingers, then one adds the 4th as an afterthought, and wonders why it seems hard. Have you tried positioning the hand so that the 3rd and 4th are comfortable, and stretching back with the 1st and 2nd?

[invinciblemoon]

I'm new here (although have been lurking for quite a few months now, trying to decided whether to join or not) and took up the violin as an adult learner in January. It's been a real jump into the deep end as I was previously a clarinettist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif) while I was at school. Didn't take any exams then, and have no real plans to do any right now either.

I've been learning as I said since January and have been working through the Abracadabra Violin book 1, and been working at some of the pieces from the Grade 2 selections book thingy. I'm having great fun attempting some of the double stops at the moment and it's not sounding completely hideous (apparently).

I do like your suggestion, Primrose, about positioning the 4th and 3rd fingers and reaching back for 1 and 2. I've been having problems with the 4th finger and it's not helped by the fact I broke it several years ago and it's now rather nicely bent permanently. I do tend to hit notes sharp more than anything these days though which is quite nice!


So um yes. I hope no one minds my just jumping in here. *waves*

[primrose]

Hello invinciblemoon (what a nice username), and welcome. Of course we don't mind you jumping in - that's what we're here for. You're doing well if you're on to Grade 2 material already.

[Violin Hero]

I'm new here (although have been lurking for quite a few months now, trying to decided whether to join or not) and took up the violin as an adult learner in January. It's been a real jump into the deep end as I was previously a clarinettist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif) while I was at school. Didn't take any exams then, and have no real plans to do any right now either.

I've been learning as I said since January and have been working through the Abracadabra Violin book 1, and been working at some of the pieces from the Grade 2 selections book thingy. I'm having great fun attempting some of the double stops at the moment and it's not sounding completely hideous (apparently).

I do like your suggestion, Primrose, about positioning the 4th and 3rd fingers and reaching back for 1 and 2. I've been having problems with the 4th finger and it's not helped by the fact I broke it several years ago and it's now rather nicely bent permanently. I do tend to hit notes sharp more than anything these days though which is quite nice!


So um yes. I hope no one minds my just jumping in here. *waves*

I remeber abracadabra book 1 and 2 from when i was about 10.

Some great starter tunes in there.

Hope you find violin fun! I am always around if you need advice.

[elisabeth_rb]

Hey everyone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I finally managed to do a bit of prac a couple of hours ago. Made me horribly tired, but I was glad to do it, even though it was just open strings exercises and a few scales and tuning exercises.

Funny that you mentioned playing with Grade 2 pieces, invinciblemoon, as I occasionally pick at a Grade 8 piece!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It's Glazunov's Elegy for viola and it's beautiful, (do you know it Primrose and Babybird2?), and is mostly in Eb major, so I figure I ought to be able to make a stab at many passages of it when I'm working on my Grade 2 level material/keys. It's fun just to hear that melody coming my own viola, even though it's slow, stilted and often out of tune as I haven't done those fingerings properly yet.

Do you know, I've been going just over 18 months now and I still don't know how I'm ever going to be able to play well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) It's just so difficult! Being well enough to practice more would help a great deal and I'm aiming to get in at least 10 minutes every day whilst I'm trying to strengthen up a bit, preferably more than once a day and that should help. If I can manage to avoid any more viruses for a few weeks, that would be great, but I daren't even hope!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Anyway, I thought something that would help me is to preview the next sections that I'm about to do before I cover them in my lesson, just to work out what I'm meant to be learning there: "What is this section trying to teach me?" Get a firmer grip on the theory in practice and get my mind around it more. Can't hurt anyway! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Babybird2]

I don't know that piece.. I'll see if I can listen to it somewhere later when I get home (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) not done any practice at the weekend, but did do about 20 minutes or so on Friday. For some reason I rarely practice any instrument on a weekend, I think I should get into that habit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[primrose]

I don't know the Glazunov either. I will search it out. I prefer not to try material that's much too hard for me, but that does narrow the field quite a lot. Anything that keeps you (elisabeth) motivated through the viruses etc must be good. Just remember to keep using that 4th finger!

[invinciblemoon]

Hey guys

Thanks for making me feel so welcome here. I can't believe I was a bit scared!

I'm really enjoying the grade 2 stuff - working on some double stopping at the moment which is.. interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think I'm at a point right now which is somewhat reminiscent of when I was learning to drive and struggling with gear changes. All of a sudden it "clicks", and I think "woo I've got it" and the next time, I (with the driving metaphor) stall the car. It's SOOOOO frustrating. Anyone else identify with that?

My fourth finger is going ok but the D on the G string is proving almost impossible for me which is also incredibly frustrating. Agh. Practice practice practice I guess.

How's everyone else getting along?

Lesson on Weds.... can't wait (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[primrose]

I'm really enjoying the grade 2 stuff - working on some double stopping at the moment which is.. interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think double stopping falls into the same category as 4th finger - the sooner you get used to doing it, the better. And there's no reason not to start doing it as soon as you can get the bow angle right for individual strings.

I think I'm at a point right now which is somewhat reminiscent of when I was learning to drive and struggling with gear changes. All of a sudden it "clicks", and I think "woo I've got it" and the next time, I (with the driving metaphor) stall the car. It's SOOOOO frustrating. Anyone else identify with that?

Yup, and I have bad news for you: this doesn't stop happening. Or maybe it's good news, because the clicks keep happening as well as the stalls. You just have to remind yourself that the click did happen, and will happen more and more often until you can't believe you ever had any trouble with it.

[elisabeth_rb]

Just remember to keep using that 4th finger!

I don't actually have a 4th finger. At least, I'm pretty sure it's not part of my body as it won't do as I ask it to!!

[primrose]

I borrowed the score of the Glazunov Elegy for viola from the library, and managed to struggle through the first few bars. My playing probably doesn't do it full justice, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) but I can tell it would be a lovely tune if properly played. I will try to find a recording.

But it reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask. The first few bars are quite playable in first position. But some previous borrower of this LIBRARY book has naughtily written in some fingerings, and they involve going into third position for the first full bar - i.e. 2nd finger on C string for a low G, then rising through A, Bb and D to 1st finger on D string for another G. I find it practically impossible to play it this way. Why would someone choose to do so, when it's clearly harder than doing it in first position? Is it because the open strings don't sound right? At least the open strings are more or less in tune ...

[Violin Hero]

Sometimes it can sound bad in first. This may becuase of string crossings or open strings that would sound nicer as 4s.

But if playable in first then do that. Its what I do, until my teacher tells me to shift!

[rosfrog]

I borrowed the score of the Glazunov Elegy for viola from the library, and managed to struggle through the first few bars. My playing probably doesn't do it full justice, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) but I can tell it would be a lovely tune if properly played. I will try to find a recording.

But it reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask. The first few bars are quite playable in first position. But some previous borrower of this LIBRARY book has naughtily written in some fingerings, and they involve going into third position for the first full bar - i.e. 2nd finger on C string for a low G, then rising through A, Bb and D to 1st finger on D string for another G. I find it practically impossible to play it this way. Why would someone choose to do so, when it's clearly harder than doing it in first position? Is it because the open strings don't sound right? At least the open strings are more or less in tune ...

Well, some people might find the spread easier in third position, or they might want to avoid string crossings, or they might just want to mess around - sadly many string players seem to think the more you shift, the better you are. It's plain irritating most of the time.

I'm from the school of 'If it can be played in first, play it in first - shift when you have to and shift gradually rather than making enormous leaps' with the proviso that sometimes a certain tonal colour is necessary and so I shift for that (like the beginning of czardas by monti) or a certain effect like a glissando when a long shift is necessary.

Other than that, I'm with you and Violin Hero - stay in first if you can and only move when you have to or, artistically, need to.

[elisabeth_rb]

Hey Primmers! Glad you've had a go at the Glazunov. The only recording I'm aware of is Track 5 on the CD 'Romanze - The Romantic Viola' which you can get through Amazon UK Marketplace sellers, although, like me, you'll probably have to wait for a US seller to get it shipped to you. It's a lovely CD all in, I think you'll enjoy it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I'm finally through with the latest virus and have just got back from a busy weekend and start a 3 week temp job tomorrow, but I hope I'll be able to get some prac in before my 10am lesson on Tues! Haven't touched my baby since my last lesson almost 2 weeks ago. Prac and I just don't seem to find time and strength for each other these days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Really must try and get this sorted as I think my teacher is beginning to get peeved with me .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Babybird2]

Good Luck for you lesson elisabeth (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've not been at home from Friday-Sunday and I'm off to Manchester today and Skiathos tomorrow, so I'll have to squeeze any playing in today if I can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I have a lesson next week Wednesday which will be... interesting with absolutely no practise this week (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)