Chord #ivd7, Resolution ?? Options

[binkyhk]

the statement which says " that #IVd7 is an altered version of chord iv, and as such it is viid7 of the dominant and usually resolves on to that chord".

Where does the resolution go to?

[Czerny]

I don't really understand your sentence (are there some words missing?), but I think the statement is saying that chord viid7 (shouldn't that be vii7d?) resolves to the dominant. Would that make sense?

Oh - does the 'd' stand for diminished? I thought it was referring to an inversion.

[SueHM]

If I have understood you correctly, chord IV would be FAC in C major, sharpened and with a d7 added, would be Fsharp, A, C, E flat which resolves to the dominant chord GBD. The Fsharp, A C Eflat chord is viid7 of G. Does that make sense?

[binkyhk]

If I have understood you correctly, chord IV would be FAC in C major, sharpened and with a d7 added, would be Fsharp, A, C, E flat which resolves to the dominant chord GBD. The Fsharp, A C Eflat chord is viid7 of G. Does that make sense?

According to p.84 of the book "Harmony in Practice"

Chord #ivd7
Apart from the diminished 7th built on the leading note ( viid7), the other diminished 7th often heard in eighteenth and nineteenth cent. harmony is an altered version of the chord iv, ie, #icd7. As such it is viid7 of the dominant and usually resolves on to that chord.

in c minor, iv7 is F Ab C Eb, whereas #ivd7 is F# A natural C Eb

[SueHM]

It resolves onto the dominant - in this case, G major (G is the dominant of C) - does that answer your question?

Edit : Oops posted just as you did, let me have another look...

iv7 has F as root, with Ab C Eb as 3rd, 5th and 7th notes above

the sharpened root ivd7 has A natural because a diminished 7th chord is built from minor 3rds. The F sharp and A resolve to D, C resolves to B, Eb resolves to D = G major triad.

Edit again - the viid7 chord of G would be Fsharp, A, C Eb

[organ_dummy]

the statement which says " that #IVd7 is an altered version of chord iv, and as such it is viid7 of the dominant and usually resolves on to that chord".
Where does the resolution go to?

In the key of C major or C minor, the chord F#-A-C-Eb is a secondary diminished seventh chord, which is also known as applied diminished seventh chord. Specifically, it is the diminished seventh chord of G, which is V of C.

While one can certainly regard this chord as an altered IV7 and thus label it as #ivo7, it is much better to use label it as viio7/V, which shows clearly to which chord this diminished seventh chord should resolve.

You should understand that when a diminished seventh chord is used functionally, its root is in fact the leading note.

[briantrumpet]

It resolves onto the dominant - in this case, G major (G is the dominant of C) - does that answer your question?

... or it can very nicely resolve onto a cadential 6/4 5/3, instead of going straight to a G major chord

[organ_dummy]

... or it can very nicely resolve onto a cadential 6/4 5/3, instead of going straight to a G major chord

I didn't mention the cadential 6/4 because it is a harmonic embellishment to the V chord.

[Jungfrauenregalbass]

I don't understand if 'd' is the inversion or if its diminished.

[SueHM]

I don't understand if 'd' is the inversion or if its diminished.

Diminished - the d would be at the end for an inversion

[Jungfrauenregalbass]

I don't understand if 'd' is the inversion or if its diminished.

Diminished - the d would be at the end for an inversion

Ok thanks it makes sence now!
I'd have written o.

[SueHM]

The diminished 5th is implied in a diminished 7th chord (see H in P p79).

[Jungfrauenregalbass]

I don't understand if 'd' is the inversion or if its diminished.

Diminished - the d would be at the end for an inversion

Ok thanks it makes sence now!
I'd have written o.

Sorry - you've lost me now. So how does the #ivd7 labelling show it is diminished without an o?

maybe as the d comes first?
if it was the inversion then you would write it #iv7d.

[SueHM]

The diminished 5th is implied in a diminished 7th chord (see H in P p79).

Brilliant Sue - thank you very much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I've found the paragraph. I'd already worked through that page as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I think I can learn and remember things better from this forum than an hour lesson with a teacher sometimes!

It took me several goes through the book to understand and absorb it all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) . I wrote pages and pages of notes too... Definitely worth it in the end, though.

[organ_dummy]

if it was the inversion then you would write it #iv7d.

I'm okay now thanks J. The d means the third inversion and Sue confirmed a couple of posts ago that p79 in HIP states the o is in fact omitted.

But then this diminished seventh chord rarely appears in third inversion. It would have to resolve to the second inversion of the dominant triad (extremely unlikely) or the second inversion of the dominant seventh chord (plausible but uncommon).