Bit Of A Disaster First Lesson.... Options

[icklechick]

I've just given a 1st lesson to a 38yr old complete beginner on violin.

He didn't have a violin, and phoned me asking if I had one to lend, or whether he had to get one. I said I didn't have any available to loan, but pointed him in the direction of a good music shop that specialises in violins. I told him to ask them for a violin suitable for beginners - knowing that they wouldn't rip him off, or give him something unsuitable. They have new and second-hand violins ranging from £70 to £12,000, and repair and renovate violins too.

Anyway, he came for his lesson today and I asked him how he'd got on at the music shop. He said he'd looked online instead and had found one cheaper. He paid £45 (which included delivery) for a new, full-size violin and case and bow.

It was the worst violin I've ever seen. The bridge was too close to the fingerboard by a long shot (easily adjusted - I could manage that!) The pegs refused to stay put. The tail piece was bent and pointed to the left.

I adjusted what I could, but it was beyond me. The lesson wasn't a total write off - it was only 1/2hr and we looked at posture, bow-hold etc, and I gave him things to practice that didn't need the actual violin to play. I lent him my violin so he could get a note out of it before he left. Then I told him to take the violin to the music shop I'd recommended and ask them to have a look at it. I didn't tell him I'd never seen anything like it obviously....I just said that it could do to have a few "adjustments" and that the music shop would be very helpful and were better suited to adjust it than I was.

Feel bad for him....he thought he'd got a bargain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[ChevvyChev]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thereThere.gif)

I see your frustration and why you feel bad for him, but rest assured you did give him the right advice in the first place by directing him to a music shop...and maybe they will be able to help in either setting it up correctly or breaking the news gently that its no good.

It sounds like you managed well to cover the basics without the instrument, and I expect that will prove a very good basis in the long term (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Fingers crossed he gets it sorted soon and can start to really enjoy learning/playing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SueHM]

It beats me why people ask for advice and then ignore it. I doubt the music shop will be as tactful as your good self. Here's hoping he comes back next time with a more suitable instrument!

[Violinia]

Cringe - I've experienced this a few times - the exact same thing. You recommend they go and get a Stentor 1 or 2 (preferably 2) if they really don't want to spend too much at first, and seeming to take your advice at the time go straight online and buy a monster. When this happens I tend to recommend they try and sell the violin in the local paper for about £30 or £40 quid and use the money towards a Stentor 1 or 2. It's probably best to tell them the truth about what they've bought because apart from anything else, the local violin shop would probably charge them a fair bit to change the pegs, sort out the tailpiece problem etc.

I also ask people to change the strings on cheap violins (especially Stentor 1s) to a set of Dominants. The difference it makes is startling and nobody who's ever done this has been disappointed. And the next time you get a new student with no violin tell them what happened to this one as a way of warning them off doing the same thing!

[AmandaL]

The same thing happened to me a few weeks back with a boy, at an expensive private school would you believe!

To begin with he turned up with his sisters 1/2 size instrument - which I tactfully explained that for a boy of 13 years of age wasn't going to be suitable.

Despite my advice, his parents purchased a full-size violin online and it was exactly the same situation as icklechick. To put it bluntly, the instrument was unplayable. The poor quality steel strings didn't even have any fine tuners on the tailpiece. I sent him away again, this time with the contact details of a certain member of these forums who can supply quality instruments at a reasonable price.

Whether he will return for lessons in the new year is debateable, but when you consider how much his parents are paying for just his academic learning, you'd think they could spare a few more quid for a playable violin, at the very least.

[Violinia]

To put it bluntly, the instrument was unplayable. The poor quality steel strings didn't even have any fine tuners on the tailpiece. I sent him away again, this time with the contact details of a certain member of these forums who can supply quality instruments at a reasonable price.

Whether he will return for lessons in the new year is debateable, but when you consider how much his parents are paying for just his academic learning, you'd think they could spare a few more quid for a playable violin, at the very least.

I currently have a school-based student with one of these violins. It's so frustrating because I know she could do so much better with a half-decent violin. No fine tuners, horrible black shiny slippy fat pegs - aarrgggh!!!! I dread the moment every week when she gets it out of the case. I've sent numerous messages back to the parents about maybe considering getting her a slightly better violin or at the very least a set of good strings, but I never hear anything back from them. What I do hear from the child, though, is that they go for very nice holidays including weekend breaks at Centre Parcs - hardly cheap. It makes me very cross.

[icklechick]

On a bit of an aside....

What sort of technical/repair skills do you have as a violin teacher? What would be the minimum you would expect a teacher to be able to do with a student's violin (changing strings etc)

I'm not good at all at anything technical. I'm even a bit dodgy with changing strings, and admit to asking orchestra friends to help out if I need it!!

[Violinia]

On a bit of an aside....

What sort of technical/repair skills do you have as a violin teacher? What would be the minimum you would expect a teacher to be able to do with a student's violin (changing strings etc)

I'm not good at all at anything technical. I'm even a bit dodgy with changing strings, and admit to asking orchestra friends to help out if I need it!!

As a violin teacher I think you should definitely be able to change strings, otherwise who is going to do it for a young child with no violin-paying parent? There's a well-written set of instructions here:

http://www.violinonline.com/changingstrings.htm

Speaking personally I'm happy to change strings, move a bridge back to where it's supposed to be if it's beginning to tip over or has been installed in the wrong place, and clean strings and fingerboard using string cleaner. Other jobs I'll recommend the local violin shop. None of these require any specialised technical skill, just common sense, surely? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Or perhaps I just like doing this sort of stuff....

[icklechick]

On a bit of an aside....

What sort of technical/repair skills do you have as a violin teacher? What would be the minimum you would expect a teacher to be able to do with a student's violin (changing strings etc)

I'm not good at all at anything technical. I'm even a bit dodgy with changing strings, and admit to asking orchestra friends to help out if I need it!!

As a violin teacher I think you should definitely be able to change strings, otherwise who is going to do it for a young child with no violin-paying parent? There's a well-written set of instructions here:

http://www.violinonline.com/changingstrings.htm

Speaking personally I'm happy to change strings, move a bridge back to where it's supposed to be if it's beginning to tip over or has been installed in the wrong place, and clean strings and fingerboard using string cleaner. Other jobs I'll recommend the local violin shop. None of these require any specialised technical skill, just common sense, surely? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Or perhaps I just like doing this sort of stuff....

I can do it - it just takes me a while, which I feel guilty about as I'm taking up their lesson time (though if I'm not doing anything afterwards, I'll run over the time. Am fine with bridge adjusting too...just wondered if other teachers knew how to do stuff like adjust the tailpiece and fix very loose pegs.

I might have to practice speeding up my string-changing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (s'why I ask others at orchestra - cos by time I've done it, they're halfway through the rehearsel!)

[ruthiet]

I have also had a number of internet violins recently. The slippy pegs seems to be the main thing that is wrong with them which makes them a total nightmare to tune and after a few notes played the pegs have slipped again. It makes me cross that companies ont the internet get away with selling these rubbish instruments. I have taken (on the advise of another violin teacher) to rubbing really slippy pegs with chalk, it really helps them stick and makes tuning alot easier. I believe you can get some kind of wax to help with bad pegs as well although I have never come across it.

[Violinia]

I have also had a number of internet violins recently. The slippy pegs seems to be the main thing that is wrong with them which makes them a total nightmare to tune and after a few notes played the pegs have slipped again. It makes me cross that companies ont the internet get away with selling these rubbish instruments. I have taken (on the advise of another violin teacher) to rubbing really slippy pegs with chalk, it really helps them stick and makes tuning alot easier. I believe you can get some kind of wax to help with bad pegs as well although I have never come across it.

You can order 'peg paste' from online violin accessories suppliers but I've given up on it because it didn't do what it said on the tin and in any case dry soap does exactly the same job for over-stiff pegs but only up to a point. I've not found chalk to be very effective either - in the end the only lasting solution is to get the pegs properly fitted and that can be a costly business. But worth it.

I can do it - it just takes me a while, which I feel guilty about as I'm taking up their lesson time (though if I'm not doing anything afterwards, I'll run over the time. Am fine with bridge adjusting too...just wondered if other teachers knew how to do stuff like adjust the tailpiece and fix very loose pegs.

I might have to practice speeding up my string-changing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (s'why I ask others at orchestra - cos by time I've done it, they're halfway through the rehearsel!)

Sorry, I didn't realise you just meant it takes you a long time. It can take me a long time too if the light isn't good and I can't see the holes in the pegs! I think you need to allow about 10 minutes, so best to do it outside lesson time as a special favour - that's what I always do, just part of the service so to speak. Useful homegrown tip - twang the strings a bit after you've put them on, then keep retuning them; I find they go less out of tune in the first week or so.

[piano*singing*lover]

I tried to tune a friends violin which was very cheap but anyway I moved the peg a notch too far and the string snapped in my face. I am now terrified of tuning my own violin or anyone elses incase the string snaps. Got me thinking what I should do if I make it as a teacher in a school and a pupil asks me to tune their violin haha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[Violinia]

I tried to tune a friends violin which was very cheap but anyway I moved the peg a notch too far and the string snapped in my face. I am now terrified of tuning my own violin or anyone elses incase the string snaps. Got me thinking what I should do if I make it as a teacher in a school and a pupil asks me to tune their violin haha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Don't worry - it happened to me in front of a brand new pupil with his rather stern-looking mother present. His violin didn't have an E string so I lent him one of mine, a nice Dominant one. It snapped with an almighty 'ping!' as I was putting it on; both son and mother looked utterly shocked, obviously doubting my competence as a violin teacher or anything else for that matter. I just said: 'oh dear, must have been a faulty string' and tried as hard as possible to carry on as if butter wouldn't melt in my mouth - it's the only thing you can do in that kind of situation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Violin Hero]

I expect a teacher to be able to tune a violin without an any aids such as a piano, tuner etc and to chane a string in about 5 mins. Also expect them to bge able o adjust a bridgeand be able to diagnose other simple faults, even if they are unale to sort it out themselves. For example there was a rattl on myprevious violin and my teacher correctly worked out it was the E string that needed changing. I took violin to a music stoe and got it changed.

All my teachers have been able to do this.

Furthermore if a violin is unsuitabl please tell the student. If they have a £50 instrument tell them to at least get a stentor 2 or conservatoire with dominant strings.

tell them they will enjoy playing violin of they have a better instrument. I have a stentor consevatoire and now enjoy playing loads more since I bought a yamaha v20g violin with a case and bow.

[Violinia]

I expect a teacher to be able to tune a violin without an any aids such as a piano, tuner etc and to chane a string in about 5 mins. Also expect them to bge able o adjust a bridgeand be able to diagnose other simple faults, even if they are unale to sort it out themselves. For example there was a rattl on myprevious violin and my teacher correctly worked out it was the E string that needed changing. I took violin to a music stoe and got it changed.

All my teachers have been able to do this.

Furthermore if a violin is unsuitabl please tell the student. If they have a £50 instrument tell them to at least get a stentor 2 or conservatoire with dominant strings.

tell them they will enjoy playing violin of they have a better instrument. I have a stentor consevatoire and now enjoy playing loads more since I bought a yamaha v20g violin with a case and bow.

Well said - I agree 100% except for the bit about being able to tune a violin without a tuner. No one should expect a violin teacher or any musician for that matter to have perfect pitch - most musicians don't have it. However, nothing more than a tuning fork should be necessary - just one 'ping!' of an A should be quite sufficient.