Lower Strings Beginners' Thread, Cos I'm sure I can't be the only one! Options

[jojo]

Nice one Jojo, well done. Have you named it? Lol.

I brought home a couple of cellos to try and had my first cello lesson last Monday! Woo hoo.

As previously mentioned I played sax for 12 years but stopped about 6 years ago.

Once I managed to remember which string was which I did OK. I have to get used to the Bass cleff now after not having to think too much about the treble for so many years!

I've been away on holiday for a week and can't wait to get practising. If I can remember the lesson!

I think I will be without the bow for a while, we are using "a flying start" which is basic stuff but I know how important it si to get the basics right early on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Excellent Tomo!!!
What an exciting time for you too!
Bass clef is 'cool' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I am used to it as I did piano up to grade 3 and a half LOL only stopped it a year ago, found out I am really a 'string person'
My Bass is called Gandalf, see a picture of him under the 'post your photo' thread in this strings forum.
When do you have your next lesson?
I will have my lessons fortnightly, next one on 9th of May, can't wait!
My fingers are SO SORE from pressing those ropes on the bass (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)
It is a really big thing to lug around, even just getting it out of the cupboard for practicing is a big chore, hope I get used to it soon enough.
If it is anything like getting used to the violin when I first started, it may take a month or so for the sore body parts to go away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

please please keep us posted on your lessons and progress on this thread, we need to 'keep it alive' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[miss sooky]

We do! Let's fly the flag for the lower strings!

[miss sooky]

p.s. JoJo, have you thought about getting a stand for your bass so you don't have to struggle with getting it in and out all the time? It made a huge difference to my practice and sanity when I bought a stand for my cello. Might reduce the need for muscle power before you even start! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[jojo]

p.s. JoJo, have you thought about getting a stand for your bass so you don't have to struggle with getting it in and out all the time? It made a huge difference to my practice and sanity when I bought a stand for my cello. Might reduce the need for muscle power before you even start! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I thought about it even BEFORE I bought the bass, BUT I was so strictly bound financially I could not afford it, then when I went and bought a bass £200 OVER my extreme upper limit it went totally out of the question. It's about £50 to buy.
I have many things on my waiting list, the first is the dentist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I need to have a tooth out and two others filled (maybe even root canal) so money will go on there, then we'll see what is next.
having said that I would not be happy to leave it on the stand 24hr a day as I have 3 mad cats at home and I do not fancy arriving home and finding the bass smashed on the floor.
The only rooms they are not allowed in are upstairs but I practice downstairs so the most suitable place seemed to be the cupboard under the stairs, away from my pesky pets and not having to lug it upstairs. BUT a stand is on the shopping list as when I am practicing and I need a little break I'd rather leave it on stand than to put it on floor or lean it in a corner.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tomo]

Thanks Jojo. Great name, does he have a beard? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My next lesson is Monday week, no lesson due to the bank holiday (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) . Never mind, I have just come back from holiday so have not had time to practise what I was told in my first lesson. Lots of time over the long weekend though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I find it a bit odd not being in tune every time due to poor finger placement. With my sax my tuning was pretty good. Just a few keys and a mouth piece!

I am off to the Luthier tommorrow to sort out a case and things. I love going to his shop. I don't need much of an excuse.......... it reminds me of an old artisan type place, smells, sounds and lovely instruments.

There's a nice coffe shop a few doors down too. It's a hard life !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[miss sooky]

p.s. JoJo, have you thought about getting a stand for your bass so you don't have to struggle with getting it in and out all the time? It made a huge difference to my practice and sanity when I bought a stand for my cello. Might reduce the need for muscle power before you even start! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I thought about it even BEFORE I bought the bass, BUT I was so strictly bound financially I could not afford it, then when I went and bought a bass £200 OVER my extreme upper limit it went totally out of the question. It's about £50 to buy.
I have many things on my waiting list, the first is the dentist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I need to have a tooth out and two others filled (maybe even root canal) so money will go on there, then we'll see what is next.
having said that I would not be happy to leave it on the stand 24hr a day as I have 3 mad cats at home and I do not fancy arriving home and finding the bass smashed on the floor.
The only rooms they are not allowed in are upstairs but I practice downstairs so the most suitable place seemed to be the cupboard under the stairs, away from my pesky pets and not having to lug it upstairs. BUT a stand is on the shopping list as when I am practicing and I need a little break I'd rather leave it on stand than to put it on floor or lean it in a corner.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I understand - music is an expensive hobby sometimes and I also know about the vagaries of felines too having two mad Bengal cats myself who, rather insultingly, run a mile when I start to play my cello!

[jojo]

I understand - music is an expensive hobby sometimes and I also know about the vagaries of felines too having two mad Bengal cats myself who, rather insultingly, run a mile when I start to play my cello!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Miss Sooky, my cats also used to run to another room when I first started learning violin but now if they happen to be next to me when I start playing, they happily stay there.
Have they just got used to it? or is it a sign that I have indeed improved since 2 years ago? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) or maybe they are suffering from deafness in their old age? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[jojo]

ok, I feel REALLY depressed here guys/gals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I am finding learning double bass VERY VERY difficult and hard.

It is SUCH a struggle to get a nice sounding note out of it in half position, I have done 20 minutes practice and I feel like I have lifted weights at the gym all day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

The first 5 minutes aren't too bad, I can get almost all notes sounding 'ok', the difficult notes are the ones on the E string (the thick rope on my right, the lowest string) and its neighbor the A string (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Getting F is like 'MAJOR' and I mean 'MAJOR' body-work to make it sound nice. F is my first finger in half position, to get G with my fourth finger is SUCH A HUGE GAP that my hand does not stretch enough, I have to do a small shift to get there with my pinky!!!!

I am playing simple tunes like the national anthem, 'oh when the saints go marching in' etc, to play these at normal speed it's just TOO MUCH physical strain.

Practicing is not fun I am afraid, I almost dread it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

please please can anyone tell me if these are normal feelings or might it be a warning sign that the bass is just not my cup of tea??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I remember enjoying learning the violin, couldn't wait to practice more, ok, at first I could only do 5 to 10 minutes before my neck/arm/shoulder were aching, but it didn't feel SUCH a STRUGGLE, I am KNACKERED!!!

violin was easy compared to this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Hello, I'm hoping to start the double bass , as soon as it arrives, have found a teacher and am looking for advice about beginner tutor books?
Any help would be appreciated,
I usually play the viola, and am just about to take grade 6,
thanks for starting this thread

Hey Gummidge, gone back on this thread and noticed you!

Have you got a bass now? I've just started last week! I have a 3/4 zeller fully carved, it's ok as a starter. I had one lesson so far and I using the book:
'Double Bass Solo 1' by Keith Hartley

You and me should 'stick together', I think we are the only 2 people who are just taking up double bass now, nice to have a 'companion' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I am finding it REALLY hard (see my previous post), let me know how you are doing.

[jojo]

I might feel slightly better....
as I was going through the syllabus for double bass ABRSM graded exams, I have seen one of the pieces I am practicing (and finding it 'fiddly/difficult), it's only on the GRADE 2 list!!!
No wonder I am finding it challenging, I've only had ONE lesson and she's given me grade 2 stuff already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Looking at it though it seems such a silly littly tune (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

If anyone wonders it's Tourtes (Camille Saint-Saens)

And another one I've done is on the Trinity Guildhall Grade 2 syllabus:
The Merry Peasant (Robert Schumann)

I am still depressed about the whole 'how hard it is' but feel a bit relieved that I am starting on grade 2 stuff whilst when I started violin I was doing open strings LOL

[miss sooky]

I might feel slightly better....
as I was going through the syllabus for double bass ABRSM graded exams, I have seen one of the pieces I am practicing (and finding it 'fiddly/difficult), it's only on the GRADE 2 list!!!
No wonder I am finding it challenging, I've only had ONE lesson and she's given me grade 2 stuff already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Looking at it though it seems such a silly littly tune (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

If anyone wonders it's Tourtes (Camille Saint-Saens)

And another one I've done is on the Trinity Guildhall Grade 2 syllabus:
The Merry Peasant (Robert Schumann)

I am still depressed about the whole 'how hard it is' but feel a bit relieved that I am starting on grade 2 stuff whilst when I started violin I was doing open strings LOL

Hi Jojo - I am glad you're feeling a bit better. I don't play the double bass but I can imagine that you have the frustrations I encountered when I first played the cello magnified to the power of the double bass!

I think there might be general points about the lower strings which could be reassuring. The first is that the physical effort involved is considerable and so easy to underestimate. As you say, even the hassle of getting the instrument out and ready to play can feel like a marathon. Then when you start to play, there are the aches and pains which are really horrible. I am a fan of the Alexander Technique and I have also got a great book, aimed at Cellists but I think applicable to all lower string players, about using your body effectively to enhance playing. It is called 'New Directions in Cello Playing: How to Make Cello Playing Easier and Play Without Pain' by Victor Sazer. I think time will help, as will developing muscle memory but perhaps try reading the book and/or consider AT - the more you can get your body to work with you, the easier practice will be. I think a lot of dread might be linked, quite naturally, to discomfort - after all, not many of us want to do something that is tiring and uncomfortable!

I also think that it can take a lot longer than one expects or would like to achieve anything like reliable sounds on lower string instruments. My teacher used to try to reassure me that it was entirely normal to be making horrible sounds for ages. I thought she was just being kind but as I have improved and observed beginners, I have learned that she was right. The noises are unpredictable, tricky and sometimes downright horrible for far longer than most of us like! Each mistake is as much a part of progressing as each success.

Perhaps a chat with your teacher would be a good plan? She sounds lovely and I am sure that she is well used to pupils feeling overwhelmed by the double bass. And do post here if you want support - lower string players unite!

[jojo]

. It is called 'New Directions in Cello Playing: How to Make Cello Playing Easier and Play Without Pain' by Victor Sazer. I think time will help, as will developing muscle memory but perhaps try reading the book and/or consider AT - the more you can get your body to work with you, the easier practice will be. I think a lot of dread might be linked, quite naturally, to discomfort - after all, not many of us want to do something that is tiring and uncomfortable!

Hi miss sooky, thanks for reply.
wow, if they wrote a book about playing the cello without pain then I feel better that perhaps it is just a very difficult instrument to get used to physically and not me 'not liking it', but I have to say, it feels like I don't like it, but then I go back thinking why I wanted to take it up and it can't be that I don't like it, it must be this 'difficult to adapt phase' surely?

Oh yes, I will talk about it with my teacher, I see her next saturday

One thing is for sure: I am not giving this up too early, I have set myself a 'goal-post' which is: if I still find it painful/hard/a chore in one year of practicing daily then I will give up, but I think that won't be the case, I should be 'accustomed' to the bass by then and hopefully in a position to enjoy it to its full potential!

I find it really odd that I have this book (double bass solo I) that has mixed tunes from grade I to grade 5 difficulty, as I was learning violin I had to change 6 books on the way to grade 2!
Also the grade 5 pieces look easier than the grade 5 pieces in violin, but I think that must be because of the great distance your fingers have to go on a bass to play a wide range of notes and the added difficulty to play a good sound out of the bass (the physical difficulty).

[kenm]

I am finding learning double bass VERY VERY difficult and hard.

It is SUCH a struggle to get a nice sounding note out of it in half position, I have done 20 minutes practice and I feel like I have lifted weights at the gym all day.

Getting F is like 'MAJOR' and I mean 'MAJOR' body-work to make it sound nice. F is my first finger in half position, to get G with my fourth finger is SUCH A HUGE GAP that my hand does not stretch enough, I have to do a small shift to get there with my pinky!!!!

None of this is surprising, and most of it will get better.

Re sound quality:

1) Bow weight, speed and position on the string are important, as I am sure you know from your violin playing, and you will find that you getter better coordination of these both as you learn the different sounds produced by varying the bowing and as you have to spend less time thinking about the demands on your left hand;

2) Consult with your teacher about the best strings for you at your present stage. You might do better at this stage with lighter third and fourth strings, possibly returning to your present ones when your fingers are stronger.

3) Many basses sound a bit muddy low down on the fourth string. In the orchestra they often have help from 'cellos, bassoon or bass tuba.

Re finger stretch:

1) Your stretch may increase with practice;

2) Difficult technical passages sometimes become easier in higher positions. not only because the stretch is less, but also because the strings are less resistant to depression there, which more than compensates for being on a lower string.

[jojo]

Re sound quality:

1) Bow weight, speed and position on the string are important, as I am sure you know from your violin playing, and you will find that you getter better coordination of these both as you learn the different sounds produced by varying the bowing and as you have to spend less time thinking about the demands on your left hand;

2) Consult with your teacher about the best strings for you at your present stage. You might do better at this stage with lighter third and fourth strings, possibly returning to your present ones when your fingers are stronger.

3) Many basses sound a bit muddy low down on the fourth string. In the orchestra they often have help from 'cellos, bassoon or bass tuba.

Re finger stretch:

1) Your stretch may increase with practice;

2) Difficult technical passages sometimes become easier in higher positions. not only because the stretch is less, but also because the strings are less resistant to depression there, which more than compensates for being on a lower string.

Thank you Kenm
the strings I have at present are spirocore.
I will take my bass to my teacher's house on my next lesson (next saturday) and she will tell me if the set up is good for me (ie is the nut too high etc etc as you may know), her and her husband make/restore/repair double basses so she will be able to help me out if needed.
I am afraid another set of strings is out of the question (money you see, and with the bass strings are expensive) so will suffer instead (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Reassuring to hear my stretch may improve in time, if not I'll just have to shift every time, which will get easier with time I am sure.
Just can't wait for this hard phase to pass, hence will practice every day religiously to get out of it as quickly as possible!

[Tomo]

Hi Jojo,

Don't despair! You sound like me when I first started learning the sax many moons ago.

I thought my jaw had dislocated. I over practised and my body just wasn't used to it.

I know nothing of the Bass but would suggest that things will improve with time.

I have been practising my new cello for the last three days and have to stop once my fingers and arm start to complain. I am sure that my muscles will learn in time.

Great looking Bass an Violin. You look cool too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Good luck.

[jojo]

Hi Jojo,

Don't despair! You sound like me when I first started learning the sax many moons ago.

I thought my jaw had dislocated. I over practised and my body just wasn't used to it.

I know nothing of the Bass but would suggest that things will improve with time.

I have been practising my new cello for the last three days and have to stop once my fingers and arm start to complain. I am sure that my muscles will learn in time.

Great looking Bass an Violin. You look cool too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Good luck.

Thanks Tomo,
I really really hope that will be the case. You see, with violin I also had to get used to things and my shoulder/neck were sore during practice and fingers too, but I still enjoyed practicing, with the bass it's so hard I don't enjoy it, but I promise I will stick to it and can't wait for the day when I will look back and wonder why it was so hard!