Hanon :) Options

[Solari]

Out of interest, how long did it take you to reach M.M.=108 on the first exercise of the yellow Hanon book? This *is* supposed to be 108 crotchet beats per minute, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I seem to be stuck at 82 (without stuffing it up) and my hands doth protest much on the way back down at this speed, it almost feels like my left hand is just about to walk away and give up... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[lois]

I can't get above about this speed either without it hurting so I'm of absolutely no use! I've done the 1st 4 exercises so far and I find I can get a pain up my right forearm so I've no intention of trying to work to a quicker speed until I can improve my technique enough at the lower speeds without it hurting.

I have the opposite problem to a lot of people I talk to, I had dicky tendons in my right elbow which were operated on about 3 years ago so my left arm is much stronger ( and about 3 inches longer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) . I remember the pain of tendonitis too well to take my chances again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

My main problem seems to be relaxing my right arm and hand position, I occasionally get the same when I've been practising arpeggios for a long time in a session too.

As for getting up to speed and how long I thinks it's the age old depends on the player and how long is available for practice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Lois

[sarah123]

It took me a good couple of years to reach the speed. (Yes, it is crotchets - count yourself lucky it isn't Czerny, in which case it would be minim=108 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) )

I got stuck around 90 ish for a long time and it didn't improve with practitising Hanon for hours and days on end (yup, tried that one!). I just found, about 18 months ago, that I could suddenly do it at 108 and beyond (now I can play it pretty comfortably up to about 130/140 ish). Something just clicked, probably as a result of more practise overall, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was that made the change.

I was about to say just keep plugging away at it and you'll get there in the end, but, to be honest, you'll get there in the end even if you don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mad Tom]

The purpose of the Hanon exercises is to learn make the finger and arm movements correctly, and to lay down neural pathways that can activate the fingers in just about any possible sequence. The purpose is not to ramp up to some semi-arbitrary target speed.

What is more, unless you are a very exceptional individual it can take years to develop finger speed. Those patterns have to be very well grooved in, and those movements have to be very correct to attain the high speeds that composers sometimes ask for.

What is more, for most people what often prevents them attaining high speed is unnecessary tension in muscles that are not actually needed for the movements. And often the extra effort of striving for more speed actually slows them down. You see this a lot in swimmers and runners as well as musicians.

It is one reason why yoga, tai-chi, Alexander technique and other systems of relaxation and body re-education are so popular with musicians, and so beneficial.

In the realm of technical exercises for the piano Peter Feuchtwanger's exercises will do more than Hanon to promote the relaxation that eventually leads to speed.

[Alicia Ocean]

I use this book for teaching - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=F0GDB1B...snum=1#PPA10,M1 - on page 10 (read it online) there are alternative ways to practice Hanon - one hand scattato and one legato etc.

[Solari]

Well it does say to hit the notes clearly and forecefully by raising the fingers high... this doesn't sound like a relaxing kind of technique to me and takes a bit of effort, so I think I must be doing it wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Should I just move on to the next exercise at 82c/bpm then?

[Mad Tom]

Well it does say to hit the notes clearly and forecefully by raising the fingers high... this doesn't sound like a relaxing kind of technique to me and takes a bit of effort, so I think I must be doing it wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Raising the fingers high might possibly have some value as an exercise. It is also quite feasible to play the Hanon exercises at crotchet = 108 with a high finger raise IF you are ALREADY an accomplished pianist. Whether there is any point in doing so is a different question, to which I do not have the answer. But speed is certainly easier with not much finger lift and maximum speed in finger passages is attained when the fingers seem glued to the keys. You certainly can't raise your fingers high AND play Prestissimo.

Whatever Hanon himself might have had to say the main, actual, modern day value of the bulk of his exercises is threefold:

- learning to place the hands correctly before playing each note
- drilling various different types of correct finger stroke, for the duration and level of tone you want
- teaching the mind to direct the fingers to operate in just about any conceivable sequence

And this is why they continue to be used by good teachers, and by advanced pianists.

The reason for learning this stuff from Hanon rather than (say) Bach's two part inventions is precisely because the Hanon exercises are un-musical, so you can give your full attention to the physical movements. There is a school of thought that maintains this is always wrong and that everything you play or study should have musical content.

If you subscribe to that view then forget about Hanon and start working through Bach's notebook for Anna Magdalena, followed by his little Preludes and Fugues and his two and three part inventions.

There is in any case a huge amount more to piano technique that cannot be learned from Hanon! It is implicit in the compositions of the great composers, but it can be acquired in more pure form from a careful selection of etudes from (amongst others) Clementi, Hummel, Cramer and Czerny ... (and eventually Chopin and Liszt too). These all have the virtue of having some musical significance.

Should I just move on to the next exercise at 82c/bpm then?

No!

You should first get clear exactly what skill or skills you want/need to acquire. Then choose suitable pieces/studies/exercises to help develop them. Then set about them in the right way. That might be the next exercise in Hanon. If it is then don't stress about how quickly you are playing. Just do it right!!

Then again it might not. I never touched Hanon until long after I had already passed Grade 8 and was well on the way to my first diploma. Some top-class pianists grow up on it. Others never touch it at all. Does PianoDoodler have any light to shed on this?

In general, this is really an area where your teacher should be guiding you and answering your questions. Some of the functions of a teacher are

- to guide you through a sensible sequence of skill acquisition
- to see what you as a unique individual at a particular stage of development most need to learn next
- in the light of the previous two points, to choose suitable material for you to work on
- to explain how to tackle that material

[Solari]

There is a school of thought that maintains this is always wrong and that everything you play or study should have musical content.

Surely that argument would apply to playing scales as well? I think scales are very helpful personally, and have definitely been helping my spatial awareness of where the keys are.

I think with the Hanon, I can definitely feel that there are weaknesses that are being exposed and worked on, so I'll keep up with it - I'm sure the millions of people that have used Hanon in the past would have mentioned something if it didn't work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

In general, this is really an area where your teacher should be guiding you and answering your questions. Some of the functions of a teacher are

- to guide you through a sensible sequence of skill acquisition
- to see what you as a unique individual at a particular stage of development most need to learn next
- in the light of the previous two points, to choose suitable material for you to work on
- to explain how to tackle that material

She did start me off on the first exercise so I went and bought the first book myself and have been trying to ramp it up. I suppose I'd better discuss this with her as she didn't mention trying to achieve any sort of specific tempo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Oops... good point.

[primrose]

Gold and Fizdale's "Hanon Revisited" is an attempt to make Hanon slightly more useful (because more like real music) and less boring, by giving different patterns to the two hands. Of course that makes it harder too. I found it more fun than the original, though that isn't saying much.

[Argerich11]

It took me a good couple of years to reach the speed. (Yes, it is crotchets - count yourself lucky it isn't Czerny, in which case it would be minim=108 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) )

I got stuck around 90 ish for a long time and it didn't improve with practitising Hanon for hours and days on end (yup, tried that one!). I just found, about 18 months ago, that I could suddenly do it at 108 and beyond (now I can play it pretty comfortably up to about 130/140 ish). Something just clicked, probably as a result of more practise overall, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was that made the change.

I was about to say just keep plugging away at it and you'll get there in the end, but, to be honest, you'll get there in the end even if you don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sarah, what do you think eventually clicked with you regarding speed? what advice would you give a velocity struggler like me? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Juan Carlos]

I'm a staunch Hanon supporter and over the last 3 years, I've been able to get near the top speed the book suggests with most - not all - exercises in the first Section (exercises 1 to 20). I have recently begun Section 2 but have only done ex. 21 so far.
Speed was a real issue with me at the beginning and what really helped was my teacher's suggestion that I should work on each exercise very slowly at first and using rhythmic variants, i.e., playing every semiquaver four-note group as quaver-quaver-semiq - semiq, first, then semiquaver-semiquaver-quaver-quaver, then quaver - semiq - semiq - semiq. and other combinations a good teacher should find it easy to spot. Some combinations work beter than others according to which fingers have to be exercised more intensively. The whole book is very useful from so many points of view and, as MadTom said in one of his posts, Rachmaninoff himself used to include 4 or 5 of Hanon's exercise as part of his daily practice.

[sarah123]

It took me a good couple of years to reach the speed. (Yes, it is crotchets - count yourself lucky it isn't Czerny, in which case it would be minim=108 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) )

I got stuck around 90 ish for a long time and it didn't improve with practitising Hanon for hours and days on end (yup, tried that one!). I just found, about 18 months ago, that I could suddenly do it at 108 and beyond (now I can play it pretty comfortably up to about 130/140 ish). Something just clicked, probably as a result of more practise overall, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was that made the change.

I was about to say just keep plugging away at it and you'll get there in the end, but, to be honest, you'll get there in the end even if you don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sarah, what do you think eventually clicked with you regarding speed? what advice would you give a velocity struggler like me? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Whatever made the difference, it wasn't practising Hanon as I'd been doing that for years with no apparent improvement. I think the biggest factor was probably just more piano practice in general as I'd increased from an average of less than an hour a day to 3ish around that point. I would also have been doing lots of scales in the run up to my grade 8, so that might have had an an influence on speed.

I think it's down to touch really. Up to speeds around crotchet=80 or so, you can happily play everything 'plonkishly' (can't think of a better word (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)) - you press down each key very clearly and distinctly and with quite a bit of force and relatively tense hands and possibly slightly jerky motions etc. To go fast, you need to relax a lot more, use less pressure and sort-of skim over the keys. (The closest thing I compare it to is drumming your fingers on the table.)

I hope that explains it well enough. If it makes no sense whatsoever, tell me and I'll try and think of a better way to explain it.

[Pianolady78]

I use hanon with great succes. its not about speed. its about making the fingers and arms and wrist relax. my teacher says you aren't meant to lift the fingers too high, in fact it should be the wrist and the arms doing most of the work. also, I play the first 6 exercises only at the moment. Legato, one hand legato, one hand stacato, and swap hands on the desending. Also, one hand forte, one hand piano. Also, practise it in rhythms, it really helps.

[petrof]

Has anyone done the last 10 hanon exercises? No.50 - 60 are really exhausting. Any tips on playing no.60?

[Pianolady78]

For me, the key to increasing speed is lack of tension. Having the arms, wrists and hands lose. To start with, I would think of each note before playing it. So as I play the note, I would think of relaxing the fingers and the hand, and prepare myself for the next note.