Confused About Sevenths. Options

[reignmurda]

I'm trying to learn how to play sixths and sevenths and am getting confused.

I learnt that a sixth was the 1, 3rd, 5th and 6th notes of the scale in which you are playing. So I thought an "A minor 6th" would be A, C, E and F. But my keyboard Chord Dictionary is telling me it's A, C, E and #F? But I thought that was an A minor dominant 7th/ A minor flattened 7th.

This got me confused. Is a dominant/flattened seventh (written as just "7" isn't it?) the 1st, 3rd, 5th and flattened 7th notes of the scale in which you're playing or the 1st, 3rd, 5th and flattened 7th notes of the major chord of the one you're playing.

For example, if I wanted to play an Am dominant 7, would I play the 1st, b3rd, 5th and b7th notes of the MAJOR A scale or the 1st, 3rd, 5th and b7th of the MINOR scale in which I'm playing.

(I'm also confused because a dominant A major chord is written as "A7" but a dominant A MINOR chord, would be "Am7" which looks like A minor?)

And can you apply this dominant/ 7th/ "blues note" chord to Major as well as Minor chords?

Sorry if this is muddle, but I am a little bit too, lol.
Can anyone help me clear this up?

Thanks.

[sarah123]

I think the problem here is mainly that you're probably getting different ways of notating chords muddled.

A dominant 7th chord is chord V with an added seventh, so in C major, it would be GBDF. The dominant seventh chord of C MINOR is also GBDF because of the B natural leading note (rather than the Bb that's in the key signature).

However, in jazz notation (I think that's what it's called) 'C7' would mean the dominant seventh chord with C as it's root (ie the dominant 7th of F major/minor = CEGBb). 'Cm7' would be the same, but with a flattened 3rd ie. CEbGBb. This is NOT the dominant 7th of C minor.

An A minor dominant 7th would be EG#BD, but if you meant the dominant 7th starting on A (ie D major/minor), it would be AC#EG, which has no F#.

I don't know a lot about 6th chords, but F# is a major sixth above A, which sounds along the right lines. I suspect you can probably have 6th chords with either a major or minor 6th, but will leave it for someone who knows what they're talking about to explain because I'm likely to be wrong.

[Invidia]

this is just an assumption, but in A minor 6th, the term 'minor' refers to the flattened 3rd. so A6 is A,C#,E,F# and Am6 is A,C,E,F#. im assuming A,C,E,F would be Amb6 or something?

as for the 7th chords, in the A major scale, G# is the 7th, so the flattened 7th would be G.
for the chord A,C,E,F# to be considered a 7th chord, the F# would have to be written as Gb (this is just an assumption, someone confirm/correct this?)

A7= A, C#, E, G. so yes this is 1, 3, 5, b7.

if i understand your question correctly, it is 1-3-5-b7 of A, because its A7. so if A7 appeared in a piece in the key of D major, it wouldnt be 1-3-5-b7 of D but of A because its a chord of A. (hope that makes sense)

Am7= A,C,E,G, so yeah its 1,b3,5,b7 of A major, not A minor. its the b3 of the major scale that turns it minor.

it doesnt sound muddled, it sounds like you are making things harder for yourself than they actually are. you work these chords out from the major scale. if you want minor you just add a b3

[reignmurda]

Thanks for clearing this up for me.
So this is how it goes...?

Rule= you always start from the major chord. The major chord is the standard to which you apply all the little m's and 7's and 6's.

Amaj= A, #C, E

Amin= flatten the third= A, C, E. (I always learnt that a minor was just the first, third and fifth notes of a minor scale but i guess "flatten the third note of the major scale is more useful?)

AM7= keep A major and add the seventh chord of the major scale= A, #C, E, #G.

A7= keep A major and flatten the seventh note of the A major scale= A, #C, E, G.

AmM7= Aminor refers to flattening the third, while M7 refers to playing the seventh note of the MAJOR scale= A, C, E, #G.

Am7= A minor refers to flattening the third, while 7 refers to flattening the seventh note of the MAJOR scale= A, C, E, G.



I hope that wasn't too waffley. I just wanted to make sure I've got it sussed. I've been working off the principle of applying the "1, 3, 5, b7" rule to A major scale when wanting to play AM7 or A7 and then also applying the same rule to the minor A scale when I wanted to play an AmM7 or Am7. I now know that such "1, 3, 5, b7th" rules refer only to changes which should be made to the original MAJOR scale.

[Robodoc]

Thanks for clearing this up for me.
So this is how it goes...?

Rule= you always start from the major chord. The major chord is the standard to which you apply all the little m's and 7's and 6's.

Amaj= A, #C, E

Amin= flatten the third= A, C, E. (I always learnt that a minor was just the first, third and fifth notes of a minor scale but i guess "flatten the third note of the major scale is more useful?)

AM7= keep A major and add the seventh chord of the major scale= A, #C, E, #G.

A7= keep A major and flatten the seventh note of the A major scale= A, #C, E, G.

AmM7= Aminor refers to flattening the third, while M7 refers to playing the seventh note of the MAJOR scale= A, C, E, #G.

Am7= A minor refers to flattening the third, while 7 refers to flattening the seventh note of the MAJOR scale= A, C, E, G.



I hope that wasn't too waffley. I just wanted to make sure I've got it sussed. I've been working off the principle of applying the "1, 3, 5, b7" rule to A major scale when wanting to play AM7 or A7 and then also applying the same rule to the minor A scale when I wanted to play an AmM7 or Am7. I now know that such "1, 3, 5, b7th" rules refer only to changes which should be made to the original MAJOR scale.

You're right, it does sound waffley, and beware of using words like "suss" in association with Chords or someone will ask you "suss 2 or suss 4?".

Looking through the waffle it seems more or less right, but the key to understanding chords is to realize that the tetrad is always the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th of the scale on the root note, but what scale will depend on which key you're in. If you are in C major and starting on the tonic, that would be C E G B. If you're in F major and starting on the subdominant that would be C E G Bb. If you're in Bb major and starting on the supertonic you get C Eb G Bb, and so on: They are all C chords but in different keys. A 6th chord on C in the key of C (C E G A) is basically a 1st inversion of the tetrad on A in C (A C E G).

Then you get the tetrads based on the positions of the minor harmonic scale, the minor melodic scale (in jazz scale terms, where it is the same up and down) and even the major harmonic scale.

I hope this is helpful.