A Trick Of The Memory, Bach Options

[Robodoc]

I'm learning the Bach Prelude & Fugue in F minor [edit: F sharp minor], no 14 from book 1 of TWTC with a view to playing it in a DipABRSM program next year sometime. The fugue is beginning to emerge from the fugg but I had the prelude more or less under the fingers several months ago before putting it to one side. Now I have restarted and am working on it in earnest the prelude is really becoming quite good, though not perfectly memorized yet.

For a laugh the other day I tried playing it (the prelude) with my eyes closed, just to see how far I would get, expecting maybe a bar or two. When I had finished it (!) I opened my eyes - I have never played a piece at any standard with my eyes shut before, so I was very pleased with myself. Alas, when I tried to do it again I was (and am) unable to repeat the feat. Worse, at least at first I couldn't play it with my eyes open any more either!!

Why did playing it blindfold make me temporarily unable to play sighted? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Cadence]

I had this with a few lines of the sinfonia from Bach's Partita no.2 - I had difficulty remembering half a page somewhere in it and in frustration I closed my eyes and tried it ... note perfect!

I then kept playing it with my eyes closed for about a week as I was worried that I wouldn't be able to play it otherwise. Eventually I had to play it for someone and was embarrassed that they would think I was feining intense emotion at that point, so I kept my eyes open and it worked.

Closed eyes training may be the way to go! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[undividedself]

Yes, I've experienced similar. The first time I play a piece from memory that I haven't touched for a while it can go very well; the second time it flops.

I wonder why this should be. It seems like the second time I am excited and thinking about it too much and this gets in the way of muscle memory. However, I haven't tried with eyes shut yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

[rovikered]

I had this with a few lines of the sinfonia from Bach's Partita no.2 - I had difficulty remembering half a page somewhere in it and in frustration I closed my eyes and tried it ... note perfect!
Closed eyes training may be the way to go! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Closing the eyes concentrates the mind! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[undividedself]

Intuitively I reckon that practicing scales blindfold would be good for developing one's mental/kinaesthetic map of the keyboard. There are no giant leaps of the hands to make so it ought to be fairly easy.

Anyone tried this?

[bevpiano]

Intuitively I reckon that practicing scales blindfold would be good for developing one's mental/kinaesthetic map of the keyboard. There are no giant leaps of the hands to make so it ought to be fairly easy.

Anyone tried this?

I've tried scales with my eyes closed - mostly ok, but I still did better when looking. Arpeggios I found pretty hard, although did improve with practice. I think I should go back to doing this, actually - arpeggios give you much more sense of judging distances.

[Solari]

I've tried scales with my eyes closed - mostly ok, but I still did better when looking. Arpeggios I found pretty hard, although did improve with practice. I think I should go back to doing this, actually - arpeggios give you much more sense of judging distances.

I find I can play pieces I have memorised much better with my eyes closed - it must shut down the visual perception part of the brain, therefore granting additional resources to muscular memory/recall. I am hardly gifted in mental capability as it is, so any extra boost is welcome! I've not tried arpeggios or scales this way yet though. Good idea!

[Mad Tom]

I think it makes complete sense. You have in fact memorized the piece sufficiently well to play it from memory, but visual input is a distraction, and provides irrelevant cues, and un-necessary information. With eyes closed your attention is free to attend purely to the kinaesthetics and the sound.

I have not had the exact experience as the OP but just yesterday I had a related one.

I was playing the warm-up act to a recital of Prokofiev piano and violin pieces. The piece was a Scarlatti sonata. For "security" I had the score on the music stand - even though I was used to practicing and playing it from memory. I soon found that I was so used to playing it from memory that I could not read the score. Far from helping it just got in the way. I stumbled a couple of times in the first four bars, repeated a phrase one time too many, and generally had a rubbish tone and uneven tempo.

So I just ignored the score and looked at my hands (and their reflection), and the rest of the piece went ... very well. I almost wrote perfectly ... but then thought of how Horowitz used to play it!! Also I did close my eyes a few times, just opening them for the two-octave jumps.

Despite the shaky start, I think it won some new members for the Scarlatti fan club.

Related to the benefits of cutting out visual distractions. I have noticed that with eyes open I often "hear" pretty much the sound I intend to make. When I close my eyes I hear something closer to the sound that I am really making. I can also aurally identify intervals and chords far more accurately with eyes closed.

[Solari]

I think it makes complete sense. You have in fact memorized the piece sufficiently well to play it from memory, but visual input is a distraction, and provides irrelevant cues, and un-necessary information. With eyes closed your attention is free to attend purely to the kinaesthetics and the sound.

It's quite odd, there seems to be a tipping point where, as you say, the score is no longer a help but a distraction. For example, there are 2 pieces which I am close to memorising, but I find that at the moment, I need the score in front of me as a prompt or it goes wrong at completely random places each time for no reason I can fathom right now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[undividedself]

Solari wrote:

I find that at the moment, I need the score in front of me as a prompt or it goes wrong at completely random places each time for no reason I can fathom right now

Based on a slightly unpleasant experience of mine, I recommend that if you're going to use the score as a safety net then practice occasionally with the score, starting from different places. Otherwise, I think, just as looking down at the hands/keys can mess up the memory, so looking at the score can mess up the memory too (as well as prompting it). It's another case of Mad Tom's principle that

visual input is a distraction

Having said that I don't have much experience playing from memory so I'll readily bow to better judgements (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Juan Carlos]

Practising with eyes closed is advocated by many as a way to make sensations and knowledge sink into the deepest layers of the brain and I think it really helps. It is among the recommended techniques in the ABRSM The Music Teacher's Companion and I should give it a try, especially with contrary motion, which gives me more trouble than anything else in terms of security.

[Roger]

I have been studying and playing WTC 1 & 2 for some considerable time now. Of the 96 preludes and fuges I have managed to play all from the scores and about 47 from memory. I have never really had a problem memorising music, and once committed to memory it's 'burned' in, unfortunately mistakes as well. I think that, subject to the difficulty of the piece, after about half a dozen play thru's 'finger memory' kicks in. Fingers just seem to know where to go even though I may not be 100% concentrating on what I'm playing. One thing I have noticed though is that if I go back to reading the score after a piece has been memorised, the performance is not as good.

[Mad Tom]

if I go back to reading the score after a piece has been memorised, the performance is not as good.

!!

[maledictis]

I have been studying and playing WTC 1 & 2 for some considerable time now. Of the 96 preludes and fuges I have managed to play all from the scores and about 47 from memory. I have never really had a problem memorising music, and once committed to memory it's 'burned' in, unfortunately mistakes as well. I think that, subject to the difficulty of the piece, after about half a dozen play thru's 'finger memory' kicks in. Fingers just seem to know where to go even though I may not be 100% concentrating on what I'm playing. One thing I have noticed though is that if I go back to reading the score after a piece has been memorised, the performance is not as good.

I aspire to be you Roger...

(not really (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )