Violin Harmonics, Natural and artificial Options

[Libitina]

Hi All,

I'am still around :-), even though not posted in quite some time. So I have a question or two.

I was introduce to harmonics and reels over the weekend and just shown what my teacher said was the "most common position" used. This was the D harmonic just before the end of the fingerboard, and also explained how to play them. Ok, thats not so difficult, i can manage that quite easily, the tone that's produces I mean. Finding the exact position will take a while longer.

Anyway, reading on the net about violin harmonics, I came across a document that contained harmonics for all the string family. but this shows 2 types of harmonics Natural, and Artificial.

I can see the difference in score of the two types a Circle and a Diamond but the missing information is the difference between the two types.

So if anyone can please enlighten me, also does anyone know roughly how many harmonic positions there are.

thanks anyone.

Rachel

[rosfrog]

A natural harmonic is when you place your finger on the string lightly and it sounds the harmonic. An artificial harmonic requires you to stop the string on a given note and use another finger (usually fourth, I think) to make the harmonic.

Natural - harmonic sounds with one finger
Artificial - harmonic sounds with two fingers.

[scifi-karis]

Natural harmonics can also only be played in certain places on the strings and artificial harmonics can be played on any note. There are also sub-harmonics, but it takes a lot of skill to sound these! Sub-harmonics are notes that sound lower than the G string. They are quite finicky and don't always sound when you want them to!

[fsharpminor]

I remember my daughter getting to grips with these in her Grade 6 piece (about 1995) , No 1 of 'Two pieces for violin and piano' by William Walton. I thought it quite advanced to be doing artificial harmonics at that grade. ( I was the piano !)

[jojo]

I was introduce to harmonics and reels over the weekend and just shown what my teacher said was the "most common position" used. This was the D harmonic just before the end of the fingerboard

I thought that the 'most common harmonics' to start off with were the ones near where the neck of violin meets the body of the violin (right in the middle of the string) rather than the ones higher up near the end of the finger-board, which I have only learnt now at grade 4 and a half and require you to go in a much higer position!

am I mistaken? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

[Libitina]

I was introduce to harmonics and reels over the weekend and just shown what my teacher said was the "most common position" used. This was the D harmonic just before the end of the fingerboard

I thought that the 'most common harmonics' to start off with were the ones near where the neck of violin meets the body of the violin (right in the middle of the string) rather than the ones higher up near the end of the finger-board, which I have only learnt now at grade 4 and a half and require you to go in a much higer position!

am I mistaken? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

Jojo, I've haven't got a clue, she says she asking of me to fill in some gaps, but i'm at the opposite end of the finger board, with my the fleshy part of between my thumb and index finger pushed all the way down to the top of the violin body.
R

[mcm]

There is a good explanation in Wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin#Harmonics and a shorter, perhaps more straightforward one here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13924/comments

You can experiment with the natural harmonics (indicated by a circle) simply by sliding your finger very lightly up and down the string while bowing; you'll get a whistling note that jumps around in pitch. The same note can sometimes be played in two different places, e.g. 1/4 way along the A string either from the nut or the bridge will produce the same A two octaves above, not surprisingly.

Half-way along the string gives the octave above the string, the same as using the fourth finger in 4th position, but with a more ethereal sound.

[kenm]

You can also get harmonics by damping in two places, and this can sometimes be easier than just damping in one place. I found this out when considering the bass harmonics in Ravel's "Tombeau de Couperin", one of which is a B produced by damping at the B position on the G string. Unfortunately, the required B is the tonic of the surrounding chord, to which, if the G string is normally tuned, its harmonic B will sound desperately flat; this is because it is justly tuned (it has a frequency 5 times that of the G and is a major third and two octaves above). The same B, nominally, can be obtained on the A string, by damping at the B position, vibrating the string in 9 parts, and this note is slightly sharp to the one required, but closer than the first. The problem is that the positioning of the damping finger has to be very precise, because the damping positions for high A (8 parts) and high C# (10 parts) are very close. Damping at the E and G positions requires less precision, and inaccuracies are likely to produce nothing, which, on the whole, is preferable to the wrong notes.

[scifi-karis]

I thought that the 'most common harmonics' to start off with were the ones near where the neck of violin meets the body of the violin (right in the middle of the string) rather than the ones higher up near the end of the finger-board, which I have only learnt now at grade 4 and a half and require you to go in a much higer position!

am I mistaken? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

I think the first harmonics most people learn are the natural harmonics that are found exactly in the middle of the string. If you measure any of the strings off to find the exact middle between the nut and the bridge, that harmonic IS somewhere near where the neck of the violin meets the body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My teacher tried to teach me the physics behind it all once. My first lesson involved a discussion about splitting the string in half, then in half again, and in half again for more harmonics!

[Libitina]

I thought that the 'most common harmonics' to start off with were the ones near where the neck of violin meets the body of the violin (right in the middle of the string) rather than the ones higher up near the end of the finger-board, which I have only learnt now at grade 4 and a half and require you to go in a much higer position!

am I mistaken? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/anyone.gif)

I think the first harmonics most people learn are the natural harmonics that are found exactly in the middle of the string. If you measure any of the strings off to find the exact middle between the nut and the bridge, that harmonic IS somewhere near where the neck of the violin meets the body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My teacher tried to teach me the physics behind it all once. My first lesson involved a discussion about splitting the string in half, then in half again, and in half again for more harmonics!

Thanks everyone for the input and web page for me to read, very helpful, and lots for me to go and read and see.

thanks again.

Oh, just remembered the name of the book she gave to me, it's called Technitunes and the piece is called Dragonfly, I think this book is a beginners book for introductions on reels and harmonics.

Rachel

[rosfrog]

What do you mean when you say Reels ? I'm not familiar with the term (other than a tune type in traditional music, but I can't see the link between reels and harmonics in that case).

[Libitina]

What do you mean when you say Reels ? I'm not familiar with the term (other than a tune type in traditional music, but I can't see the link between reels and harmonics in that case).

Actually rosfrog, I think you're correct. Just googleing the the term violin reel, its comes up with just as you said, a tune type(looks irish in origin, but dont quote me on that) :-)

I just assumed what I'm learning is a technique she calls reels, goes something like

D A A A E A A A F A A A G A A A and varying notes, played as fast as possible. Hope this gives an idea. This was an independent task from harmonics, not meaning to confuse the issue.

Lib

[rosfrog]

I see!

The tune you've typed sounds more like a fingering exercise than a reel to me, at least it's a reel I've ever played or heard before.

Good exercise for intonation, though!

[river]

The tune you've typed sounds more like a fingering exercise than a reel to me, at least it's a reel I've ever played or heard before.

i thought it sounded a little like the B part of the Irish Washerwoman ;-) (of course that's a jig, not a reel.)

[Libitina]

The tune you've typed sounds more like a fingering exercise than a reel to me, at least it's a reel I've ever played or heard before.

i thought it sounded a little like the B part of the Irish Washerwoman ;-) (of course that's a jig, not a reel.)

Hey now you just trying to confuse me, I thought a jig was something that was used to make violins, you know, to hold all the bits of wood together, ROFL