Young Baritone Horn Player Puffing Cheeks, How to inspire him to stop? Options

[dacapo]

I've just accompanied a young baritone horn player in his Grade 2 exam. Last autumn when he was only 7 I accompanied his Grade 1 for which he got a distinction, and since then he's enjoyed playing in a local festival. He's playing very confidently and musically, with a noticeable dynamic range, accurate rhythm and articulation. Apparently his teacher (who teaches him at one of the local primary school) does sometimes mention not puffing his cheeks, but he's still doing it all the time and I don't think he's convinced it matters. I sent his Mum (who plays cellos and piano) a link to a picture of Dizzie Gillespie with his bull-frog cheeks but I'm not sure if she showed it to X.

I expect to be playing for him again. Am I right to be concerned? If so, any suggestions for interesting ways to help him to stop? Mum doesn't want to pester or upset X.

[Trumpet_Ben]

I've just accompanied a young baritone horn player in his Grade 2 exam. Last autumn when he was only 7 I accompanied his Grade 1 for which he got a distinction, and since then he's enjoyed playing in a local festival. He's playing very confidently and musically, with a noticeable dynamic range, accurate rhythm and articulation. Apparently his teacher (who teaches him at one of the local primary school) does sometimes mention not puffing his cheeks, but he's still doing it all the time and I don't think he's convinced it matters. I sent his Mum (who plays cellos and piano) a link to a picture of Dizzie Gillespie with his bull-frog cheeks but I'm not sure if she showed it to X.

I expect to be playing for him again. Am I right to be concerned? If so, any suggestions for interesting ways to help him to stop? Mum doesn't want to pester or upset X.

When I began learning tenor horn in primary school, Diz was used as an example of what would happen if we puffed our cheeks. To this day, now on trumpet, I'm convinced that Diz was an unusual case. There's a condition whereby someone's skin becomes extremely, abnormally stretchy.

If I puff my cheeks on trumpet, my range decreases by at least a fifth, and everything else goes to pot. I don't think Diz could have played as well and high as he did without firm corners, so I think his cheeks just did that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) His neck went too, which is often not mentioned.

Maybe a low brass specialist will have more to say, but I'm fairly certain some tuba players puff their cheeks at the low end... Maybe it's not that big a deal for a bari player? The air pressure is lower than on higher brass, so any risk that is there may be reduced.

[x-music-fairy-x]

I used to do this when I was learning, however my teacher refused to put me in an exam like that. He stopped me doing it by first doing an experiment where I would play a piece with my cheeks puffed out and then again with them not. He would then ask me which was easiest, which is obviously the second one.

However even though I knew it would be easier it was more a habit now, he used to kind of bribe me in a way after that by saying if I did puff out my cheeks then i'd have to do buzzing practice again (I used to hate this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) ) kinda strange but it worked.

Then obviously the natural cause of stopping it- I got more in intelligent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and realised it hurt!

[dacapo]

I used to do this when I was learning, however my teacher refused to put me in an exam like that. He stopped me doing it by first doing an experiment where I would play a piece with my cheeks puffed out and then again with them not. He would then ask me which was easiest, which is obviously the second one.

How old were you, and what instrument were you playing? I guess both those things could make a difference. I don't think X could play a piece without puffed cheeks yet.

However even though I knew it would be easier it was more a habit now, he used to kind of bribe me in a way after that by saying if I did puff out my cheeks then i'd have to do buzzing practice again (I used to hate this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) )

I don't know if he does buzzing practice either.

Then obviously the natural cause of stopping it- I got more in intelligent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and realised it hurt!

That does sound a very good reason for stopping! If it hurts X he hasn't mentioned it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Roseau]

Apparently his teacher (who teaches him at one of the local primary school) does sometimes mention not puffing his cheeks, but he's still doing it all the time and I don't think he's convinced it matters.

This to me sounds like the child not wanting to admit that his teacher tells him every lesson that he's not supposed to puffing out his cheeks. Saying "My teacher sometimes metions it" suggests that the pupil is aware it's a problem and that if he said "No, my teacher's never told me" you wouldn't believe him or would wonder what sort of incompetent teacher he had. On the other hand, if he said "My teacher's always saying that" then he probably thinks you would reply "Well why don't you listen to him."

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say that the child is "not convinced it matters" and seven-year-olds can be very stubborn!

[tempus incognitum]

I used to do this when I first learnt baritone & trombone, also at a similar age (but that's irrelevant). Now much older I now know that it can be detrimental to range and to general tone control as you progress, especially if it is happening all the time.

My brass teacher used to get me to practice in front of a mirror. Which, as irritating as it was, fixed the problem as I could see when I was doing it, how not to do it, and how wrong it looked compared to other band members playing technique.

Just an idea, but expect some resistance!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[x-music-fairy-x]

How old were you, and what instrument were you playing? I guess both those things could make a difference. I don't think X could play a piece without puffed cheeks yet.
I don't know if he does buzzing practice either.
Then obviously the natural cause of stopping it- I got more in intelligent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and realised it hurt!That does sound a very good reason for stopping! If it hurts X he hasn't mentioned it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well I was 11 almost 12 so I should probably have known it wasn't a good idea and I play cornet which is higher so yes it probably would be harder if you puffed out your cheeks- I'm not sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
You could ask him like as a random question- by the way does it hurt to puff your cheeks out like that? or why do you puff your cheeks out like that?

Ok those are pretty straight forward questions but he might get upset so maybe you could show him pictures of people like say Louis Armstrong or someone and play some music by him and then say do you want to be like him one day? etc. and just mentions stuff like all the best players don't puff their cheeks- basically make him believe that he wants to be the best player ever, and it will be really special because he doesn't puff out his cheeks... obviously if that doesn't work best thing would be to maybe not show the picture of Dizzie Gillespie with his bull-frog cheeks but maybe mentions that eventually if you keep blowing like that they will stay like that forever etc. and mention Dizzie as an example. He will get curious trust me, and his Mum isn't doing him any favours not showing him the picture, and his teacher my teacher was on my case all the time and made sure my Dad was on my case all the time as well.

You could always refuse to play for him unless he changes- might upset him and parents but there is no reason why he shouldn't try and stop before it becomes a habit and sometimes this is the best way. He is yound though, when he goes into secondry school and joins school band, maybe get a new teacher and meet others learning he might see that its embarrasing and learn to stop.

Hope it works out for him sooner rather than later

Lisa x

Lisa x

[Trumpet_Ben]

Without wanting to be picky, Louis used so much pressure at times to play a C above the staff that he had blood in his mouthpiece! Fantastic musician, but not a great example of good technique...

I agree with the general idea though. Maybe try someone like Wynton Marsalis, Rafael Mendez, or Maurice Andre. Wynton's a good one, as he's someone that both classical players and jazzers can relate to.

[ben_walker446]

Push against his cheeks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hello_cello]

wrap a belt round his head?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)