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| just helen |
Oct 12 2009, 08:01 PM
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#1
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 26-May 09 From: Dartmoor Member No.: 66438 |
When I moved to Dartmoor a year ago I introduced contracts for the first time in 22 years of teaching, as I felt that having a fresh start meant that I could lay down the rules instead of allowing parents to walk all over me.
I`ll never forget one mum, a few years ago booking a dental appointment on purpose to clash with the piano lesson - I suppose so that I would in effect have to pay for the check up, if you see what I mean! Anyway, one of the conditions I put in the new contract was that I would carry on teaching throughout the school holidays, except over Xmas and the New Year, and of course if I or the family concerned were going away on holiday. Unfortunately one girl did not have a lesson in 7 weeks of the recent sumer holidays because the family were in financial difficulties. I let it pass, because of their difficult circumstances. However it made me think -is a contract legally binding, and could you actually take a parent to the small claims court over missed lessons? |
| nickjones8 |
Oct 12 2009, 08:18 PM
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#2
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 8-October 07 From: Leicester Member No.: 17610 |
When I moved to Dartmoor a year ago I introduced contracts for the first time in 22 years of teaching, as I felt that having a fresh start meant that I could lay down the rules instead of allowing parents to walk all over me. I`ll never forget one mum, a few years ago booking a dental appointment on purpose to clash with the piano lesson - I suppose so that I would in effect have to pay for the check up, if you see what I mean! Anyway, one of the conditions I put in the new contract was that I would carry on teaching throughout the school holidays, except over Xmas and the New Year, and of course if I or the family concerned were going away on holiday. Unfortunately one girl did not have a lesson in 7 weeks of the recent sumer holidays because the family were in financial difficulties. I let it pass, because of their difficult circumstances. However it made me think -is a contract legally binding, and could you actually take a parent to the small claims court over missed lessons? Short answer: any contract is effectively an agreement to enter into a certain arrangement - so if someone breaks the agreement, you could claim damages to cover your reasonable losses. But whether you would be successful and what you could claim would depend on what the contract said, what your actual losses were, and whether you could evidence that both parties agreed it (e.g. by producing a signed copy). |
| busylizzy |
Oct 12 2009, 08:32 PM
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#3
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Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 5-May 09 Member No.: 64618 |
When I moved to Dartmoor a year ago I introduced contracts for the first time in 22 years of teaching, as I felt that having a fresh start meant that I could lay down the rules instead of allowing parents to walk all over me. I`ll never forget one mum, a few years ago booking a dental appointment on purpose to clash with the piano lesson - I suppose so that I would in effect have to pay for the check up, if you see what I mean! Anyway, one of the conditions I put in the new contract was that I would carry on teaching throughout the school holidays, except over Xmas and the New Year, and of course if I or the family concerned were going away on holiday. Unfortunately one girl did not have a lesson in 7 weeks of the recent sumer holidays because the family were in financial difficulties. I let it pass, because of their difficult circumstances. However it made me think -is a contract legally binding, and could you actually take a parent to the small claims court over missed lessons? I recommend to anyone in the music teaching profession to join the Incorporated Society of Musicians. This organisation produces an excellent contract which is legally binding. Then, if any disputes arise with parents, and you decide to take legal steps, the ISM will represent you in court. Fortunately I have only once had to resort to this proceeding, and I was represented by a barrister. We won the case in the Small Claims Court. There are many other adventages to being a member of the ISM, such as discounts at most music shops, and many other firms not connected with music at all. Their websites also list teachers who are members on the net. I have had many enquiries through this. Busylizzie |
| nickjones8 |
Oct 13 2009, 07:24 AM
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#4
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 8-October 07 From: Leicester Member No.: 17610 |
I was represented by a barrister. We won the case in the Small Claims Court. Gosh. No criticism implied at all, Lizzie, and I'm glad you got what you were owed, but I'm surprised that the ISM paid for you to be represented in an arbitration hearing. The whole point of the small claims procedure is that people should not need expensive legal representation - and (unless the rules have changed, and I'm behind the times) the legal costs are not recoverable, so that the amount the ISM paid out may have been a significant proportion of the amount you were claiming. Which is none of my business, of course. I've done a few small claims cases, and while some registrars treat the thing as a court hearing n miniature, the best try to make it an easy process for all concerned. It's good that you were assisted, but I just want to reassure people that they can handle this sort of thing themselves if needs be. |
| Dugazon |
Oct 13 2009, 09:48 AM
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#5
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Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2107 Joined: 14-January 07 Member No.: 9044 |
yes, of course they are.
the musicians' union offers the same legal services, although they are drawing a line at £50. if the sum that needs to be recovered falls below this, they usually advise you to let it go, because it's hardly worth the hassle (so they say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) |
| Jatzaya |
Oct 13 2009, 10:39 AM
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#6
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 15-June 08 Member No.: 32963 |
I have Ts and Cs and have always considered them legally binding, but in practice, when the parents break them I find it impossible to enforce them, as I live in a small community and, rightly or wrongly, it would just wreck my reputation. I've just had a conversation with a parent who's informed me that her little boy has too much on, and will be stopping at half term, even though I ask for 6 weeks' notice. I've had to agree to this graciously (although feeling unfairly treated!)
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| Mad Tom |
Oct 13 2009, 01:57 PM
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#7
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Unregistered |
So long as a contract is fair (as determined by the courts) and freely entered into, then it is binding, and can be enforced.
Having it written and signed (and better still witnessed) does not make a contract any more legal or valid than simply agreeing it in conversation, but it prevents a guilty party from denying that they agreed to it. You may, for all kinds of reasons (hassle, reputation, exceptional circumstances, ...) choose not to enforce a contract that the other party has broken, but it is worth having the contract in any case, so that when someone breaks the terms they know very well that they are in the wrong, and you have done them a favour. [ And when someone really blatantly oversteps the limits and you decide that you will take action, then you have legal redress ] |
| just helen |
Oct 13 2009, 05:06 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 26-May 09 From: Dartmoor Member No.: 66438 |
I have Ts and Cs and have always considered them legally binding, but in practice, when the parents break them I find it impossible to enforce them, as I live in a small community and, rightly or wrongly, it would just wreck my reputation. I've just had a conversation with a parent who's informed me that her little boy has too much on, and will be stopping at half term, even though I ask for 6 weeks' notice. I've had to agree to this graciously (although feeling unfairly treated!) I agree! I live in a village and around here everyone knows everyone even from neighbouring villages. So if I come down hard on a parent who has broken the contract then she won`t recommend me! In the case of this particular family the need was genuine. I knew what was going on with the father`s (non existent) job and that the mum was trying to keep themselves, 4 children, a dog, 2 cats and chickens, not to mention the mortgage and other outgoings on their detached house, all out of a nurse`s salary. So it was desperate for them. But of course I lost too, and I`m not exactly rich either... My contract is more of a guideline so that we all know what to expect from one another. ie clause 9 states that there shall be a commitment on behalf of the pupil to practice, as I advise, with support and encouragement from the parent/carer. All rather tongue in cheek, but well, it was worth a go!! |
| Jane S |
Oct 14 2009, 07:17 AM
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#9
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: 15-February 09 Member No.: 56015 |
I have found that having everything down in black and white very helpful. I have been able to collect fees in lieu of notice and when the relationship between me and a parent broke down recently, it meant I was in a strong position.
So far I have not had to go to the small claims court, and quite frankly, if I felt strongly enough and the sum was worthwhile, I would do it. You can opt to represent yourself, or have someone qualified. I think if someone takes on a company for a consumer dispute, the company would normally have legal eagles to represent them. T&Cs are there for the benefit of the teacher and the pupils. I always ask people to take them away, and read them carefully and come back to me with any questions. I briefly describe the main points. For me it is a fall back position, if you like, for when things go wrong. Waiving fees for illness is at my discretion, and I only do this for good attenders who very rarely call in sick, if at all. Holidays I ask for as much notice as possible, for example, when they are booked. |
| Dugazon |
Oct 14 2009, 11:58 AM
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#10
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Virtuoso ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2107 Joined: 14-January 07 Member No.: 9044 |
Some people mentioned enforcing a contract would wreck your reputation or give you "bad press". It is of course true that you might feel anxious about losing income in a small community where everyone knows each other. However, why should it only work one way?
If you ARE enforcing your T&Cs and someone starts mouthing off publicly, just do the same, carry the contract to your local butcher's and say: "Did you know that xyz doesn't pay her bills? Aren't you a bit nervous she might do the same to you if you put her mince on the slate the next time ?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I am joking, of course you woudn't do this, I am just using this as an extreme example. What I want to say though is that we usually find ourselves in the position we choose. Not good of course if it is the weak one and we deal with it in a fatalistic manner straightaway. What good are T&Cs if you write them out nicely and then let yourself be taken advantage of again? From own experience, I can only recommend introducing contracts to ALL students, even to the ones that have been with you for ages. Most people don't mind, the ones who do you can do without, and if you put your foot down once, people will just see you as more professional, not the other way round. Of course you get the odd one who tries to wriggle their way out, but in general, life has become much easier. I'd just like to encourage everyone to go for it (and enforce it of course!) - most people actually don't mind ... |
| Jatzaya |
Oct 17 2009, 02:23 PM
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#11
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 15-June 08 Member No.: 32963 |
Some people mentioned enforcing a contract would wreck your reputation or give you "bad press". It is of course true that you might feel anxious about losing income in a small community where everyone knows each other. However, why should it only work one way? ... What I want to say though is that we usually find ourselves in the position we choose. Not good of course if it is the weak one and we deal with it in a fatalistic manner straightaway. What good are T&Cs if you write them out nicely and then let yourself be taken advantage of again? Thanks for the thought. Unfortunately it isn't that simple where I live. For those of us with small businesses, there's a balance to be struck between letting ourselves be taken advantage of and feeling unfairly treated, and insisting on our reasonable rights, with the adverse consequences which are again likely to be unfair. Small communities vary and it seems to me that you have to live in the area to be able to judge what effect your policy will have. My community is small and, for one reason or another, I happen to be known by an awful lot of people here. Once a 'rumour' starts about something it can be almost impossible to scotch it. I know for a fact that sticking to my guns could be devastating to the goodwill my business has at present. |
| lorraineliyanage |
Oct 17 2009, 06:21 PM
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#12
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 862 Joined: 17-October 05 From: S. London Member No.: 5008 |
When new pupils start, I ask them to sign a contract. I also send an email explaining the main ts and cs which are:
1 week's notice require to cancel a lesson Payment up front for half a term in advance Half a term's written notice required to terminate lessons As long as I have laid all these details out in the email, I feel happy enforcing these conditions and have had to do so on several occasions (particularly when pupils forget that they have a piano lesson, or when they have INSET days off school) |
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