Ways Practising Feeling Groups Of Bars Options

[Andy007]

Hi all.

I have Charles Beale's Jazz Piano From Scratch tutorial book, and it starts off with question and answer (just with right hand) to help you feel 2 bar, 4 bar phrases etc. I can do 2 bar question and answers alright, but when it comes to 4 bars I fail miserably. I cannot 'feel' 4 bars of improvisation - I either end my prhase too early or too late. I have tried splitting the 4 bars in to 2 sets of 2 bars (in terms of phrases) but that does not always work for some reason and I'm starting to think I need more practise with just 2 bar question and answers. However, I'm getting very bored at using the same questions from Beale's book and I can't really make up any good ones. Are there any other ways of practising feeling groups of bars?

PS: Would you suggest buying the quick studies book so that I can play with different questions and liven it up a bit?

I hope this makes sense..

Thanks

[TSax]

I've been having a think about this and have put off replying mostly because I think it might be quite different as a solo pianist. Getting lost when you're soloing is very, very common when you're starting out and not exactly uncommon with people who've been playing for quite some time. It's something I used to do all the time, but now I find even if I've got myself into a mess in my solo I usually pretty much know where I am. BUT, a big part of the reason for that is that I've learned to listen more to the rhythm section when I'm playing and probably mostly to the bass player as a cue for knowing where I am in a sequence. I can, I think, manage a 4 bar phrase without any other cues but I know I still struggle when my teacher asks me to play on a longer section, or a whole chorus keeping the form and making the changes without any accompaniment. I have to keep it very, very, simple if I'm to stand a chance - so maybe that's one tip. Another tip if you're working on a particular tune is to try to keep the melody going through your head while you're playing or to use sections of the melody in your improvising.

It's worth bearing in mind though that in most practical jazz playing situations you wouldn't be improvising as a solo pianist but with at least bass and drums accompanying you, so there are aural cues. I know I used to practise with backing CDs and play 4 bars, rest 4 bars, play 4 bars, rest 4 bars etc to try and get the feel of the length of phrases. I don't know how easy that is with piano because I suspect the pianist on the CD could be a bit intrusive. Or even, if you've got a keyboard or digital piano with rhythm accompaniments, put one of those on and see if that helps you to feel 4 bars at a time.

Another exercise might be to sit down and work out a specific 4 bar phrase and write it down (keep it simple), then transpose it through all 12 keys (the standard jazz practice trick) so you know it really well, then start altering bits of it, the rhythm or the notes so that it's still recognisable as the phrase, and it's still 4 bars, but it's different to your starting phrase. Then do another one or two, then try mixing them up, all the while you're building your "vocabulary" of 4 bar phrases and becoming more comfortable with how they feel. If you think you're deviating from 4 bars, stop, check yourself and go back to something simpler if you need to - there's no point in practising getting it wrong.

[Andy007]

Hi TSax thanks for the reply!

Keeping the melody in your head has been suggested to me before, but I can't seem to do it. Is it just a case of playing/listening to the melody as much as you can until it is stuck in your head?

[TSax]

Hi TSax thanks for the reply!

Keeping the melody in your head has been suggested to me before, but I can't seem to do it. Is it just a case of playing/listening to the melody as much as you can until it is stuck in your head?

Partly that, and partly just practice. I wish I was better at it than I am.

With all the things that you end up thinkin "I can't seem to do it", try and remember "of course I can't, I've never tried to do it before, it's a brand new skill (like learning music in the first place) and it's going to take me a while before I can do it with ease"

I know lots of people who when a particular exercise is suggested to them try it once, decide they can't do it and give up. The secret is to persevere, mastering something you previously couldn't do is how you make progress.

[TSax]

Slightly more helpfully, try using the melody as a basis for your improvisation. Maybe play 2 bars melody, then 2 bars with notes improvised but keep the same rhythm as the melody and gradually move further away. If you get to a point where you can't keep track of the melody anymore, stop and go back a step. You want to practice getting it right, not getting it wrong.

[AndyL]

I also saw this thread earlier but wasn't sure how to respond. I think learning the melody well is definitely good advice. If you're struggling feeling groups of bars, it's probably a better idea to work with actual tunes than stand alone exercises from a method book - you don't say whether or not the question and answer phrases you're working on are based on a proper tune or not. And yeah, playing the melody repeatedly is probably the best way to learn it, although there are some other things you can do as well to help. Singing the melody can help to internalise it in a way that playing it doesn't, for example (doesn't matter if you're not good at singing). Also play (or sing) the tune at different tempos and time feels, sing it while you play the bass line or the chords on piano, sing it while you clap a clave rhythm or other rhythmic pattern ... use your imagination.

It will also help a lot to do some more listening to jazz, while paying attention to the form and phrase structure of the tune. The most common forms in jazz are 32 bar song form and 12 bar blues, which both tend to consist of phrases of four or eight bars (although in solos, many players like to play phrases "over the lines".)