What Are You Learning?, ...and how's it going? Options

[Mad Tom]

This week we put the Chopin Ballade aside and revised Mozart's sonata K576. In his book on Mozart's sonatas Michael Davidson described this as "possibly one of the most difficult in the entire repertoire".

Of course that is complete nonsense, as you can confirm by a glance at Listz's B minor sonata, Prokofiev's later sonatas, or Beethoven Op. 101, to name just three.

But you can see his point. The 2-part counterpoint is not the simple stuff for beginners that Mozart thought he was writing, and the texture is so sparse that there is nowhere for mistakes to hide, so great precision and control in every aspect of performance is needed.

I fondly imagined that my deliveryapproached that of Klara Wurtz, but a few minutes of objective criticism (confirmed by recording at home) showed that the gap is huge between a fluent, memorized performance, and a performance worth listening to ... and the gap remains to be bridged.

There are disturbing micro-variations in rhythm and tempo of which I am quite unaware when playing. And the basic sound is cold and uninviting - a problem to be remedied by much more control over the ends of phrases, avoiding premature release of harmony notes, and adding just a touch of pedal to enrich the tone, but without blurring the harmonies or the melodic line. A very difficult skill.

Then there are the notes intended to have a slight accent - but that leap out at you in a harsh sforzando, and those that are meant to be pp in a dying phrase, but sometimes fail to sound at all.

And ... under stress there are the problems associated with excess tension, and old bad habits that resurface, like playing a note with the thumb by dropping the wrist rather than articulating the thumb from its base, or attacking fast turns from high above the note, so limiting the potential speed, and losing alot of control. ... and of course "smudging" (holding notes down for too long)

And then ... of course ... were the numerous misunderstandings of musical details ... false accents, emphasizing the wrong voices, or playing a line that is meant to emulate a voice as though it were something from a Kraftwerk creation.

You really do need to be tough (able to take criticism without wilting), persistent, and dedicated to make progress in playing this horribly difficult instrument.

Still - at least there will be plenty to work on at the Chetham's master class. It won't be like some master classes you see where the student is brilliant, performs the piece immaculately, and leaves the "master" (who we all know can no longer play it so well as the student) struggling to find anything to with which to entertain the audience.

[madbassoonist]

Going over arpeggios, contrary-motion chromatic scales and scales in 3rds for fast-approaching exam! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
Keeping pieces ticking over.

Did you decide to go for grade 7, madbassoonist? What pieces are you playing? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A3 - Scarlatti Sonata in F minor
B2 - Grovlez La sarabande
C2 - Ravel Menuet sur le nom de Haydn (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

I'm really worried about the aurals (especially identifying modulations - I just can't tell whether it's gone to the dominant or subdominant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)) but will probably/hopefully make up the marks in sightreading and scales... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

Are you thinking of doing an exam (grade 6/7?) any time soon? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fran*Piano]

Going over arpeggios, contrary-motion chromatic scales and scales in 3rds for fast-approaching exam! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
Keeping pieces ticking over.

Did you decide to go for grade 7, madbassoonist? What pieces are you playing? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A3 - Scarlatti Sonata in F minor
B2 - Grovlez La sarabande
C2 - Ravel Menuet sur le nom de Haydn (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

I'm really worried about the aurals (especially identifying modulations - I just can't tell whether it's gone to the dominant or subdominant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)) but will probably/hopefully make up the marks in sightreading and scales... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

Are you thinking of doing an exam (grade 6/7?) any time soon? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I love the Scarlatti Sonata, it's lovely (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) I'm not planning on doing any piano exams any time soon-I can't do aural or sight-read to save my life, so no chance of any of that just yet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

[kingsley13]

I'm really worried about the aurals (especially identifying modulations - I just can't tell whether it's gone to the dominant or subdominant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)) but will probably/hopefully make up the marks in sightreading and scales... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

What I do is try to sing the tonic note when the examiner plays it and then keep that in my head while the examiner plays the modulation and then sing up the notes at the end. The annoying part is that I think the examiner only plays it once, so you don't get another chance to check. If that doesn't work, I was taught that if it modulates to the dominant it is a much brighter sound than to the subdominant. It'll probably help to listen to lots of modulations until you pick up what a modulation to the dominant and the subdominant generally sound like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You've reminded me, I need to remember how to do grade 7 aural too this term! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[clavicembalo]

... if it modulates to the dominant it is a much brighter sound than to the subdominant. It'll probably help to listen to lots of modulations until you pick up what a modulation to the dominant and the subdominant generally sound like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, this is the case. Typically in baroque suites, for example Bach's French Suites, English Suites, Partitas, movements are in binary form in that they consist of two 'halves'. The first usually modulates to the dominant, the second 'takes over' as it were, in the dominant key and returns to the tonic at the end.

So baroque movements are a good source of modulations to the dominant.

I think it is much easier to 'hear' this change, having listened to examples, than to hold a note in your head.

Modulation to the subdominant is more subdued, less bright - a good pointer.

[Jamie Parkinson]

I be learnin': Echo from the French Overture by Bach - beautiful piece, pretty much nailed now

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata: 1st movt is done, 2nd & 3rd are in the process now. Good God the 3rd movt is hard...

[1993allende]

memorising chopin raindrop prelude (op28 no15). For imminent performance *unfamiliarity of focused work*

[Fran*Piano]

I be learnin': Echo from the French Overture by Bach - beautiful piece, pretty much nailed now

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata: 1st movt is done, 2nd & 3rd are in the process now. Good God the 3rd movt is hard...

I love the Moonlight, I can do the 1st movt, but the 3rd is definitely on my "learn to play before I die" list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

[1993allende]

I be learnin': Echo from the French Overture by Bach - beautiful piece, pretty much nailed now

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata: 1st movt is done, 2nd & 3rd are in the process now. Good God the 3rd movt is hard...

I love the Moonlight, I can do the 1st movt, but the 3rd is definitely on my "learn to play before I die" list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

Likewise... Id better get a move on cos im going to need the next 57 years of my uk life expectancy to learn it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Fran*Piano]

I be learnin': Echo from the French Overture by Bach - beautiful piece, pretty much nailed now

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata: 1st movt is done, 2nd & 3rd are in the process now. Good God the 3rd movt is hard...

I love the Moonlight, I can do the 1st movt, but the 3rd is definitely on my "learn to play before I die" list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

Likewise... Id better get a move on cos im going to need the next 57 years of my uk life expectancy to learn it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif) my music teacher frequently tells me "It's not that tricky, it's just very fast is all!" easy for him to say with his LRSM in piano (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[clavicembalo]

I be learnin': Echo from the French Overture by Bach - beautiful piece, pretty much nailed now

I had thought of playing this (as a demo) at a recent forum 'Baroque Day', but when it turned out that the harpsichord had only one manual, I decided to leave it at home - I couldn't have switched pedals fast enough for the desired 'Echo' effect .... the desired echo effect .... the desired echo effect .... the desired echo effect ....




(Despite the rather cliched ending to my response, it is a most effective movement, played on either piano or harpsichord.)

[corenfa]

I be learnin': Echo from the French Overture by Bach - beautiful piece, pretty much nailed now

Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata: 1st movt is done, 2nd & 3rd are in the process now. Good God the 3rd movt is hard...

I love the Moonlight, I can do the 1st movt, but the 3rd is definitely on my "learn to play before I die" list (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

Likewise... Id better get a move on cos im going to need the next 57 years of my uk life expectancy to learn it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif) my music teacher frequently tells me "It's not that tricky, it's just very fast is all!" easy for him to say with his LRSM in piano (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I don't have a LRSM in piano but I'm trying to learn something with similar characteristics (Debussy "Toccata" from Pour Le Piano), and I really remember feeling the same way. That was a couple months ago. I thought it was going to take me ages to learn it. I do understand what your teacher means - if played slowly, it is not tricky. I've had to be really patient and play it through at half or a third speed to learn it.

Good luck!

[Mini_mo]

A most interesting practice session last night... My silent system has broken :-( so I practiced on the keys but with no sound!

And an interesting thing occurred... without hearing any sound I could really concentrate on what my fingers were doing and also found that I could really focus on the rhythm too.

I suppose its like playing away from the piano but with a little bit of help (I find it hard to do this as I am unable to visualise the keyboard).

The only drawback I can see is making a mistake and being tonally unaware of it. Obviously its no good for tonal work either! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Juan Carlos]

Interesting indeed Mini_mo! This system entails hearing the full feedback from what you choose to play with full sound and it has sometimes been used by my teacher to help me get used to listening to one hand and not the other (as much). She calls this 'method' the "ghost RH" or "ghost LH" accordingly. It consists in playing one hand with its full sound while the other merely strokes the key, so to speak. This helped me a lot with contrary motion scales, as my Lh was always very weak and it can also be applied when one hand sings out the melody and the other one should only 'accompany'.

I meant "... while the other merely strokes the keyS".

[Mini_mo]

Interesting indeed Mini_mo! This system entails hearing the full feedback from what you choose to play with full sound and it has sometimes been used by my teacher to help me get used to listening to one hand and not the other (as much). She calls this 'method' the "ghost RH" or "ghost LH" accordingly. It consists in playing one hand with its full sound while the other merely strokes the key, so to speak. This helped me a lot with contrary motion scales, as my Lh was always very weak and it can also be applied when one hand sings out the melody and the other one should only 'accompany'.

I meant "... while the other merely strokes the keyS".

I have used that technique too especially for getting one hand much quieter than the other. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)