What Are You Learning?, ...and how's it going? Options

[bean52]

As a change of scene I'm on my first "jazz" pieces - teacher gave me "Downtown Beat" by William Gillock and I liked it so much I started on his "New Orleans Blues" too. Then having been bitten by the jazz bug I got myself a set of Oscar Peterson's jazz exercises and I'm working on the first two. It's a lot of fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[PianissiMole]

Just back from music lesson. Teacher wants me to tackle the 3rd movement of the Moonlight Sonata next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'm in two minds about it as I don't think I'm ready to do it justice ,and therefore it will require a disproportionate amount of time and effort in relation to the return (progress) I'm likely to get; and on the other hand, I guess its never really to early to make a start on something I do want to be able to play.

I have toyed with it, off and on, for the past year and always ended up putting it to one side, when the progress-to-effort ratio fell below a certain amount; each time I returned to it, I felt I made a significant leap forward and possibly this was down to resting it?

Still undecided (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Mole

[Invidia]

PianissiMole- I think that advanced repertoire such as the 3rd mvt of Moonlight (actually, any diploma level repertoire) needs tackling before you are ready to do it justice. I think the right way to go about doing justice to any piece of music is to learn it as best you can then put it to one side and come back to it, put it to one side again etc.

Even with concert pianists, what you hear them play in concert or on CD is only the tip of the iceberg because you are only hearing the pieces they themselves are happy with rather than any old thing they can reach the end of for the pleasure of an amateur audience. When I think about this in relation to someone like Leslie Howard whose Liszt recordings almost fill an entire CD storage unit on their own, I feel VERY small.

But back to the point, definitely learn that 3rd movement, then when you have done all you can for the present put it away for a couple of years, play other things and come back to it!

[corenfa]

Just back from music lesson. Teacher wants me to tackle the 3rd movement of the Moonlight Sonata next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'm in two minds about it as I don't think I'm ready to do it justice ,and therefore it will require a disproportionate amount of time and effort in relation to the return (progress) I'm likely to get; and on the other hand, I guess its never really to early to make a start on something I do want to be able to play.

I have toyed with it, off and on, for the past year and always ended up putting it to one side, when the progress-to-effort ratio fell below a certain amount; each time I returned to it, I felt I made a significant leap forward and possibly this was down to resting it?

Still undecided (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Mole

I don't think it's a bad thing to have many goes at it, I've done that for quite a few pieces before, not necessarily all on piano. You might not do it justice right this minute but any effort you put into learning it now will get you closer.

[lilly763]

Just back from music lesson. Teacher wants me to tackle the 3rd movement of the Moonlight Sonata next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'm in two minds about it as I don't think I'm ready to do it justice ,and therefore it will require a disproportionate amount of time and effort in relation to the return (progress) I'm likely to get; and on the other hand, I guess its never really to early to make a start on something I do want to be able to play.

I have toyed with it, off and on, for the past year and always ended up putting it to one side, when the progress-to-effort ratio fell below a certain amount; each time I returned to it, I felt I made a significant leap forward and possibly this was down to resting it?

Still undecided (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Mole

Since you've gone back and forth on the piece several times now and seem to appreciate working on it even if it doesn't get to performance standard quickly, I don't see why this time should be any different. It'll probably be even more rewarding with your teacher's support. I actually had a negative experience with trying to work on this piece before I was ready (though my teacher did assign it), but that was mostly because I was 13 and extremely immature - I was convinced that if I couldn't get it up to 160 working on it was worthless (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I know better now, and I think you do too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[PianissiMole]

Thanks for the positive comments - all good advice. It's just possible I might manage it this time round, which is a great incentive. Perhaps more importantly in the long term, we will work on building some of the essential tools for playing the piece - especially arpeggio work.

Ravel and Schubert to finish first!
Mole
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mad Tom]

Just back from music lesson. Teacher wants me to tackle the 3rd movement of the Moonlight Sonata next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
I'm in two minds about it as I don't think I'm ready to do it justice ,and therefore it will require a disproportionate amount of time and effort in relation to the return (progress) I'm likely to get; and on the other hand, I guess its never really to early to make a start on something I do want to be able to play.
I have toyed with it, off and on, for the past year and always ended up putting it to one side, when the progress-to-effort ratio fell below a certain amount; each time I returned to it, I felt I made a significant leap forward and possibly this was down to resting it?
Still undecided (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Mole

It is dead simple. Is there something else that you would prefer to learn, and that would contribute to your development?

If so learn that, if not learn the "Moonlight" but keeping in mind (which is true of most things anyway - even very "simple" pieces) that like the rest of us you will not play it really well until you have forgotten and re-learned it twice over.

[PianissiMole]

It is dead simple. Is there something else that you would prefer to learn, and that would contribute to your development?

If so learn that, if not learn the "Moonlight" but keeping in mind (which is true of most things anyway - even very "simple" pieces) that like the rest of us you will not play it really well until you have forgotten and re-learned it twice over.

There's so much I want to learn (and so little time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) but the Moonlight is probably up there in my top ten! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jellybean]

I'm re visiting Debussy's Clair de Lune ( again!!) and am absolutely determined to master the fast runs...this time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I can play it all through now with all notes in place...just need alot of patience and practise I suppose now.

[Mad Tom]

I'm re visiting Debussy's Clair de Lune ( again!!) and am absolutely determined to master the fast runs...

Fast runs? Where?

[jellybean]

I'm re visiting Debussy's Clair de Lune ( again!!) and am absolutely determined to master the fast runs...

Fast runs? Where?

Well I think they're fast anyway...at the un poco mosso section. Funny coz my teacher from long ago wrote 'faster' at this bit aswell (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I suppose I'm struggling playing with accuracy and with more flow/speed.

Any hints Mad Tom...?

Please.... thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[Mad Tom]

Any hints Mad Tom...?
Please.... thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Make sure that your finger/hand/arm actions are appropriate to the speed it will eventually go (and not to an Adagio)

Do a lot of repetition at a speed that is MUCH slower than you are aiming for, and that you can handle easily (this will also get the Pedalling accurate)

Increase speed g r a d u a l l y , (almost imperceptibly).

Keep the semiquavers light (bring out bass and melody)

Never repeatedly force the speed so that you lose control (but every few days "have a go" at a speed that is faster than comfortable to "get the feel" of it)

After a few weeks of intensive work, put the piece away for six weeks and forget it, then relearn it ...

... then put it away for 3 months, forget it again, and re-learn it again.

Memorize it!!!

Find other exercises and pieces that use similar patterns or develop similar schools (several Czerny etudes fit the bill) and work on those in parallel, and while resting the piece.

Be patient

Be patient

Be patient

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jellybean]

Thanks Tom....some great advice!

I have my old 'Czerny exercises' book still so I will have a go at those aswell.

It really is my goal to master this piece as it has a very special place in my heart coz my Gran ( who gave me her piano and was the only one who really understood my passion for wanting to learn the piano) used to always play it. I still have her original copy.

So, thank you...I'm gonna crack it this time! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chopinzee]

I'm re visiting Debussy's Clair de Lune ( again!!) and am absolutely determined to master the fast runs...this time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I can play it all through now with all notes in place...just need alot of patience and practise I suppose now.

It depends on just how fast you play this, un poco piu mosso is'nt the same as allegro molto... but it does seem that the majority of pianists who i've heard playing Clair de Lune race off at breakneck speed here. Gordon Fergus Thompson, something of a Debussy specialist, plays it very slowly, in fact the piece clocks in almost two minutes longer than the average time taken. I would say that he goes a bit too slowly, but many go too quickly. I do play this one, all the faster bits memorised, and the fingerings i've chosen would probably be regarded as a bit unconventional and I'd imagine would be frowned on by some... Popular as it is, and as much as i've heard it in recitals(mostly student ones) down the years, generally I have'nt been that impressed with the performances...on one occasion an accomplished pianist(the students teacher) who I'd heard in the past give a good account of a Chopin Ballade and Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody made an absolute hash of it. So my advice would be, memorise the quicker parts, but choose the fingerings for all the piece carefully, write them down, and don't play poco piu mosso at too much of a clip. It takes work and time to get this one sounding as beautiful as it ought to.

[corenfa]

I'm re visiting Debussy's Clair de Lune ( again!!) and am absolutely determined to master the fast runs...this time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I can play it all through now with all notes in place...just need alot of patience and practise I suppose now.

It depends on just how fast you play this, un poco piu mosso is'nt the same as allegro molto... but it does seem that the majority of pianists who i've heard playing Clair de Lune race off at breakneck speed here. Gordon Fergus Thompson, something of a Debussy specialist, plays it very slowly, in fact the piece clocks in almost two minutes longer than the average time taken. I would say that he goes a bit too slowly, but many go too quickly.
...

I also think most people take it too fast. (I thought Gordon F-T's was OK though) I also don't like stupid amounts of rubato applied to the earlier Debussys, but I think that may be a personal preference rather than a criticism of wrong style.

I like to play this almost as slow as Fergus-Thompson - I think it is just that much more magical and contemplative.

(I also have the slightly macabre thought that if I am ever braindead and on life support, this is what I want them to switch me off to)