Composing Sat At Sibelius - Good Or Bad? Options

[clavicembalo]

As a mathematician/maths teacher I wrote many 'poems' based on the subject matter and vowed that I would never write at the keyboard. One reason was because on paper all those ideas that lead to dead-ends still survive, perhaps to be used more profitably in a different setting at a later date; writing straight onto the screen such ideas are far more likely to be deleted and hence lost entirely.

This changed when eventually I got a laptop (although not exclusively so).

Encouraged last year by a colleague to try my hand at composing music (she invited me to write for the String Group at school), I started off with pencil and eraser, dutifully writing onto manuscript paper and literally cutting with scissors and pasting with glue to produce the final product. With access to Sibelius I then transferred my attempts accordingly. Even then I was adamant that were I ever to invest in a copy of Sibelius myself, I wouldn't sit at the screen composing. That has changed and so far as I am concerned, for the better, the immediacy of the results outweighing other considerations.

I do wonder however, whether I am simultaneously shooting myself in the foot by foregoing that step of 'hearing' the music and writing it down, developing that skill away from a keyboard of any type.

Is this purely a sign of the times? Should I rejoice in the technology at my disposal and use it from the outset of the compositional process or would I be wise to stay away from the computer until I have at least recorded the notes on manuscript? How do others work at this?

[barry-clari]

As a mathematician/maths teacher I wrote many 'poems' based on the subject matter and vowed that I would never write at the keyboard. One reason was because on paper all those ideas that lead to dead-ends still survive, perhaps to be used more profitably in a different setting at a later date; writing straight onto the screen such ideas are far more likely to be deleted and hence lost entirely.

This changed when eventually I got a laptop (although not exclusively so).

Encouraged last year by a colleague to try my hand at composing music (she invited me to write for the String Group at school), I started off with pencil and eraser, dutifully writing onto manuscript paper and literally cutting with scissors and pasting with glue to produce the final product. With access to Sibelius I then transferred my attempts accordingly. Even then I was adamant that were I ever to invest in a copy of Sibelius myself, I wouldn't sit at the screen composing. That has changed and so far as I am concerned, for the better, the immediacy of the results outweighing other considerations.

I do wonder however, whether I am simultaneously shooting myself in the foot by foregoing that step of 'hearing' the music and writing it down, developing that skill away from a keyboard of any type.

Is this purely a sign of the times? Should I rejoice in the technology at my disposal and use it from the outset of the compositional process or would I be wise to stay away from the computer until I have at least recorded the notes on manuscript? How do others work at this?

I do rather more arranging than composing : and I do find Sibelius invaluable. Most of my arrangements I now do either wholly or partly with Sibelius.

I still like the immediacy of composing with 'real' instruments (ie at a piano/on the clari etc.) and with composing (as opposed to arranging) I still often avoid the computer altogether, except to print off neat copies of music.

[Solari]

As long as you have an idea of what you want to achieve in your head, and can keep it there, what's the problem?

I think you should write down the basic idea first so that you don't deviate/lose it too much while working on the computer.

Sadly I have a few dozen short ideas sat in Sibelius and have no idea what to do with them... Waiting until Chet's and the beginner's composition course! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) My compositions so far are a bit lacking in diversity... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Neil Quinn]

As long as you have an idea of what you want to achieve in your head, and can keep it there, what's the problem?

I think you should write down the basic idea first so that you don't deviate/lose it too much while working on the computer.

Sadly I have a few dozen short ideas sat in Sibelius and have no idea what to do with them... Waiting until Chet's and the beginner's composition course! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) My compositions so far are a bit lacking in diversity... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I tend to stumble across a musical idea while playing (usually in the middle of scales or learning my exam pieces). I then kick them around for a few days and then finally I'll put them into the computer (either using Cubase to record a performance, or MuseScore to get the notation).

I guess 'composing at the computer' is not quite as grim as it sounds if there is a MIDI keyboard to hand and some playing is involved? I have a digital piano so it does both. In fact, what is the difference between an old school composer sitting at the piano, playing a bit and scribbling on manuscript, and doing the same on the computer?

Solari, I sympathise with the problem of lack of diversity. Whenever I play new pieces to my wife she says they are very much in "my style" - this is for piano pieces and my attempts at orchestration. I find it mildly annoying that I already have a "style"!

To counter this I have deliberately made myself write pieces that are somewhat out of my style (last year I wrote a Gigue a la Handel, and I am just finishing a ragtime piece). It's quite nice to have the challenge!

N

[Fran*Piano]

I HATE Sibelius (we have to use it in school) but I do admit it is very helpful, particularly when writing for instruments you can't play or aren't even that familiar with.

[Oboecop]

I think there's the potential to become lazy when using sibelius but I don't think it can be to blame for bad composition. a good composer should have a clear idea of what he/she is trying to write and should be able to take what they hear from sibelius with a pinch of salt. I think it has unquestionably made composition easier.

[clavicembalo]

I think there's the potential to become lazy ....

Yes, that's possibly what I'm wary about.

I think it has unquestionably made composition easier.

Easier perhaps in that there is an immediacy allowing you to hear a version of what you are attempting to write.

School students don't tend to write computer programs nowadays, but it was always better to do planning and background work away from the screen than to try and write straight onto it, trying to amend deficiencies along the way. I do wonder though, whether today's students are developing the patience to see that their 'live' on-screen attempts will, more often than not, benefit from serious revision. Composition is, but for the lucky few, still a time-consuming exercise.

I HATE Sibelius (we have to use it in school) but I do admit it is very helpful, particularly when writing for instruments you can't play or aren't even that familiar with.

Is it the association with school that makes you loathe Sibelius or that you find it unnecessarily fiddly to use?

[Fran*Piano]

I HATE Sibelius (we have to use it in school) but I do admit it is very helpful, particularly when writing for instruments you can't play or aren't even that familiar with.

Is it the association with school that makes you loathe Sibelius or that you find it unnecessarily fiddly to use?

It's just really fiddly, and I'd rather sit at the piano and faff around if I'm honest (although I do pretty much hate composition anyway)

[Solari]

It's just really fiddly, and I'd rather sit at the piano and faff around if I'm honest (although I do pretty much hate composition anyway)

Learn to use the number pad (even better get an external USB number pad and stick it on top of the digital piano/keyboard), and you'll find it a breeze (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Czerny]

I think there's the potential to become lazy when using sibelius but I don't think it can be to blame for bad composition. a good composer should have a clear idea of what he/she is trying to write and should be able to take what they hear from sibelius with a pinch of salt. I think it has unquestionably made composition easier.

Sibelius per se is not to blame for bad composing, but I think that teachers who take the approach that sitting their students in front of a computer with Sibelius and telling them to write a piece of music is "teaching composition" have a lot to answer for. It's like an English teacher plonking their pupils in front of MS Word and expecting them automatically to be able to write poetry.

[Oboecop]

Well then I think that its the approach to teaching that is wrong. its the same as anything really: sibelius is a quality tool that makes composing easier but you need to now how to compose just like having a good violin won't make you a good violinist on its own or having good golf clubs won't make you a good golfer. I think, of course you can't just plonk a student in front of a computer, and hope that in a few days he'll become a composer but I see no harm in people who aren't composers playing around to get ideas as long as its in conjunction with learning about harmony, history etc. I started composing on sibelius quite early. I look back now and although the technique is bad the ideas are so much more imaginative and fresh because I was just playing without any restrictions. I say sibelius is so useful for anyone studying composition or not but it won't teach you composition.

[saxophile]

I'm pretty new to both composing and Sibelius (though I have previously done some arranging and written it up using Finale Notepad, and all I can say is that Sibelius is just a dream to use in comparison!), so can't really give lots of insight, but for what it's worth, this is what I do:

First efforts are invariably at the piano, even if composing for sax. At present I'm very much melody-led: I pick out the melody, and once that's reasonably settled then I start the harmonisation. (My teacher has promised me a session sometime to come at it from the other direction - ie chord progression and then work out the melody - but I haven't had that yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I don't know which I'll end up preferring, but ever since I was a small child I have always liked and found it easy making up melodies by ear, so I suspect I may end up carrying on that way...)

Once I have a basic structure there (and have checked that it's even remotely playable on sax, if that's what I'm writing for), it goes into Sibelius and from then on, the fine-tuning is done on Sibelius. The ability to make small tweaks and then play it back straightaway to decide what sounds best is invaluable. I have literally sat for 5 minutes at a stretch hitting Undo and Redo to make up my mind between two alternative versions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

I doubt I'd personally ever be able to compose straight into Sibelius - I need the piano keyboard in front of me to make the link between the vague ideas in my head and the shape of the melody - but I wouldn't necessarily say it was wrong to do so, or that it will necessarily lead to "weaker" compositions. Provided the composer has the rigour to test out the piece on a real instrument before concluding that it is "finished", I can't see why starting with computer and ending with instrument (rather than vice versa) is going to cause a problem.

[notmusimum]

I think that teachers who take the approach that sitting their students in front of a computer with Sibelius and telling them to write a piece of music is "teaching composition" have a lot to answer for.

Absolutely true (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

It's marginally better than sitting them down wiht a piece of paper and telling them to compose a piece. Even sticking them in front of a keyboard without teaching composition won't be of anymore benefit.