Modulation Options

[faureforever]

Hello,

If I modulate to the sub-dominant of D minor, would that be G minor.....or G major?
Similarly, if I modulate to the dominant of D minor would that be A minor....or A major?

[Oboecop]

Hello,

If I modulate to the sub-dominant of D minor, would that be G minor.....or G major?
Similarly, if I modulate to the dominant of D minor would that be A minor....or A major?

I think it can be either but as the subdominant in a minor key is minor you would most likely to be G minor. Similarly the dominant in a minor key is major so you would most likely go to A major.

[Fran*Piano]

Hello,

If I modulate to the sub-dominant of D minor, would that be G minor.....or G major?
Similarly, if I modulate to the dominant of D minor would that be A minor....or A major?

I think it can be either but as the subdominant in a minor key is minor you would most likely to be G minor. Similarly the dominant in a minor key is major so you would most likely go to A major.

Just to check, is whether the note of the scale major or minor determined by whether the chord of that note is major or minor in a particular key? For example, would the subdominant of D major be majorr as the G chord in the key of D is a major chord, but the dominant of D major would be minor as the A chord is missing a C# and therefore minor? Sorry to hijack the thread a little bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[maggiemay]

No, the dominant of D major is A major. In fact the A chord does have a C# - from the key sign.

[Fran*Piano]

No, the dominant of D major is A major. In fact the A chord does have a C# - from the key sign.

Oh dear me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) I knew there was a C# in D major, I've just made myself look an utter fool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) so would the mediant of the D major scale be minor, as there's a F# but no D# in the B chord?

[clavicembalo]

No, the dominant of D major is A major. In fact the A chord does have a C# - from the key sign.

Oh dear me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) I knew there was a C# in D major, I've just made myself look an utter fool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) so would the mediant of the D major scale be minor, as there's a F# but no D# in the B chord?

I think you've done it again! The mediant is iii, so you're looking at F# minor, not B ... which would be the submediant (B minor, anyway).

[Fran*Piano]

No, the dominant of D major is A major. In fact the A chord does have a C# - from the key sign.

Oh dear me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) I knew there was a C# in D major, I've just made myself look an utter fool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) so would the mediant of the D major scale be minor, as there's a F# but no D# in the B chord?

I think you've done it again! The mediant is iii, so you're looking at F# minor, not B ... which would be the submediant (B minor, anyway).

I give in, I can't articulate myself properly tonight! I'll ask my music teacher at school some time, I don't fancy making myself look like a perfect fool on here again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[maggiemay]

I did see what you were getting at though - I was trying to think up a useful example !

Chord ll and chord Vl are minor chords in a major key (so is chord lll but maybe a less likely modulation).

(Clavicembalo's example was a modulation to the key of chord Vl - the submediant).

So in C major: if you modulated to a 'D' key it would be more likely to be d minor than D major, and if to an 'A' key, a minor rather than A major. The key of chord Vl is also of course the relative minor of the major key.

[organ_dummy]

...if I modulate to the dominant of D minor would that be A minor....or A major?

...the dominant in a minor key is major so you would most likely go to A major.

Not true, actually. Although the V chord of a minor key is major because of the raised leading note, the minor v is more common as a goal for modulation.

[faureforever]

uummmm......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Think I've grasped this now:

The dominant of a major key is also a major key because it is a major chord
The dominant of a minor can be either because the dominant can be either a major or minor chord......but how do you know which one to go for? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[organ_dummy]

Think I've grasped this now:
The dominant of a major key is also a major key because it is a major chord
The dominant of a minor can be either because the dominant can be either a major or minor chord......but how do you know which one to go for? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Yes, in a minor key, both V and v are possible. If you want the chord to proceed to i or VI, or as part of a cadential progression, then you should use V with the raised leading note. For other situations, use v.

A common example is i-vb-ivb-V.

If you want to modulate from a minor key to its dominant key, v is more common. The V needs to appear only at the end of the modulation, when you are ready to return to the tonic key.

[faureforever]

Thankyou all for your help, this forum is fab! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)