Should I Retake My Grade 8? Options

[Mad Tom]

I did my grade 8 singing before easter and passed (115).

...

I want to further my singing, I probably need a higher grade 8 mark.

er ... WHY?

Heck ... I only got Grade 3 in my O-level Music back in 1971. Should I re-take to get a Grade 1 [or rather GCSE to get an A*]. Of course not.

Nobody really cares what actual mark you got except maybe you, your teacher, possibly some close family, maybe a close friend or two (but they won't care very much).

You passed. You've reached the standard. You should be pleased. A lot of entrants fail.

If you are planning to go to a conservatoire you'd be better off working towards a diploma. And in any case you will have to impress them at audition, and not with your Grade 8 marks.

From my point of view re-taking is pointless.

[notmusimum]

There seems to be a consenus about not retaking and I can understand why.

Out of interest what steps would everyone take to ensure they were progressing? Would they change anything? How could you be sure that you have actually progressed? Would this be entirely dependent on your own judgement?

As I explained this is a topic that interests me.

[Cyrilla]

I heard of someone who passed Grade 8 singing at the age of 12 with 118 - re-took it (for UCAS points) at the age of 17 and got 120...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[andante]

A friend of mine retook her grade 8, because she couldn't get into Music college without a distinction. Originally she went to Nottingham Uni to read music, but it wasn't what she really wanted, so she retook her grade 8, reapplied and went to the Royal Northern instead.

Sometimes you have to look good on paper to get to the stage where you can impress them by sounding good.

I don't see why retaking grade 8 is seen as holding someone back. If you move on and improve technique and work on new pieces it should be possible to return to grade 8 later, when it will seem easy compared to the level you are now woking at. Learning a new set of pieces for the exam rather than rehashing the old ones can't hold you back.

The exam result isn't the be all and end all, and Kingsley and dramallama should be very proud of their achievments, but retaking might be a necessary step eventually.

[notmusimum]

A friend of mine retook her grade 8, because she couldn't get into Music college without a distinction. Originally she went to Nottingham Uni to read music, but it wasn't what she really wanted, so she retook her grade 8, reapplied and went to the Royal Northern instead.

Sometimes you have to look good on paper to get to the stage where you can impress them by sounding good.

I don't see why retaking grade 8 is seen as holding someone back. If you move on and improve technique and work on new pieces it should be possible to return to grade 8 later, when it will seem easy compared to the level you are now woking at. Learning a new set of pieces for the exam rather than rehashing the old ones can't hold you back.

The exam result isn't the be all and end all, and Kingsley and dramallama should be very proud of their achievments, but retaking might be a necessary step eventually.

I was beginning to think I was totally out of step.

I don't think I'd encourage daughter to retake an instrument that she wasn't going to study at Uni level but it may be a different story if it was one that she wanted to persue.

Using the comment sheets from the exam is all well and good if there is actually stuff there that will guide you to improve.

[Bass Clef]

Sometimes you have to look good on paper to get to the stage where you can impress them by sounding good.

I can see what you're saying, but from what I understand, the conservatoires audition all applicants, so it really doesn't matter about what you get at grade 8.

Out of interest what steps would everyone take to ensure they were progressing? Would they change anything? How could you be sure that you have actually progressed? Would this be entirely dependent on your own judgement?

I think that general progress in technique and musicianship is better than an improvement in 3 or 4 pieces and some specific tests. I would have a talk through with my teacher in order to assess strengths and weaknesses in technique and discuss ways forward. I would consider a change of teacher if I didn't think the current teacher could help me. I'd also spend lots of time going to concerts, reading relevant books and listening to recordings - anything to get ideas and gain a better understanding of music. I think you know when you've improved in technique because after a while, you get a kind of eureka moment when things make sense, and you can do things that you previously couldn't. Yes, I think it is quite a subjective thing that is dependent on people's judgement, but then music is a very subjective and personal thing. Exams can be a good indicator of where you're at, but they don't always mean a lot. For example, I got a good, solid merit at grade 8 singing, but I know that a lot of fundamental technique wasn't in place - I guess I just managed to blag my way through it.

[BerkshireMum]

A friend of mine retook her grade 8, because she couldn't get into Music college without a distinction. Originally she went to Nottingham Uni to read music, but it wasn't what she really wanted, so she retook her grade 8, reapplied and went to the Royal Northern instead.

Sometimes you have to look good on paper to get to the stage where you can impress them by sounding good.

I don't see why retaking grade 8 is seen as holding someone back. If you move on and improve technique and work on new pieces it should be possible to return to grade 8 later, when it will seem easy compared to the level you are now woking at. Learning a new set of pieces for the exam rather than rehashing the old ones can't hold you back.

The exam result isn't the be all and end all, and Kingsley and dramallama should be very proud of their achievments, but retaking might be a necessary step eventually.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) The grade 8 repertoire is full of different challenges, and parts of it also appear on the DipABRSM lists. I certainly wouldn't recommend re-doing grade 8 with the same pieces, but there's plenty of choice and it can be good to try again with a new programme; you extend the range of things you can play.

At the same time, I think it is a bit of a lottery what mark you get on the day. It's no good assuming you will automatically get more marks the second time, as it may not happen even if you're playing much better in general than you were.

[Tixylix]

I heard of someone who passed Grade 8 singing at the age of 12 with 118 - re-took it (for UCAS points) at the age of 17 and got 120...

It is worth bearing in mind that UCAS points are by no means universal. Many universities still make grade-based offers only, and if they do give a points-based offer they may well specify that a certain number of points need to come from A level (or whatever exams you're doing) subjects or that they only accept a certain number of points from 'other' pursuits such as music, and I believe they can decline to accept points from music exams altogether. Of my 6 university offers (in 2006, I understand you get 5 choices now), 5 were based solely on A level grades. I mention this because I hear people talking about UCAS points for grade exams a lot and I would hate for someone to push themselves - or be pushed - through Grade 6-8 exams for the sake of UCAS points only to find out they won't be counted after all. I notice this doesn't tend to happen with higher grade theory exams, probably because they are worth so few points.

[andante]

At the same time, I think it is a bit of a lottery what mark you get on the day

Absolutely!

[notmusimum]

At the same time, I think it is a bit of a lottery what mark you get on the day

Absolutely!

Couldn't agree more!

[Bagpuss]

With the exception of conservatoire entry (and even there you don't necessarily need The Bit of Paper) the practical entry-requirement for a BMus varies hugely. Our Further Education system is now so poor it has fallen into three tiers in my opinion (and probably most of my generation would agree). This is NOT a dig at current students who work jolly hard; it is just indicative of The Powers That Be moving the goalposts.

HOWEVER, there's no need to retake. If you are looking at conservatoires you will have to audition and the standard is post-Grade 8. Top tier universities - example Oxbridge may look beyond the playing ability. I know of one recent Cambridge interview/audition that included harmonisation without access to a keyboard for example. Taking the other extreme, the academic entry point is much, much lower and they may not want to hear you perform at all! Alpha Male Jazz Cat has close ties to one such establishment and it is the norm for students not to take Grade 8 until 1st or 2nd year! Sis recently worked with university undergrads where the majority didn't read music at all. But hey, they'll ALL come out with a BMus... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

SO - lots of different ways in so no need to stress about unnecessary retakes. The important thing is to focus on where you want to study and then make sure you meet that establishment's requirements.

The very best of luck to the OP.

Bx

[Chris H]

This is an interesting thread. My son has just taken grade 8 and got a merit when he wanted a distinction. He failed the aural, which is a regular occurance! He was wondering about retaking, as he thought he needed to get a distinction to get into a conservetoire. However, he came home from his lesson last week and said that his teacher recommended that he should do the diploma instead. I looked into what the diploma involves and to me it looks like a better option than retaking. It will help him to continue improving his technique, and will expand his repetoire and he will have to learn about the pieces and their composers to write the programme notes. A bonus is that there is no aural!

[Clari_notts]

I agree with the general consensus here, retaking is probably pointless unless it's to secure a pass after failing an exam. You achieved a grade 8 which is fantastic - just look at the board stats to see what a small group of people actually achieve that and revel in the experience that you've passed!

Personally, I would go on to Dip level (especially if you're considering a conservatoire) as its really important to develop technique and your own musical voice. The levels above Gd8 are all about muscianship, interpretation and communication of the music you play - the exams at this level are different - more public performances and are judged as such. The skill needed to be successful beyond Gd8 means you need a great specialist teacher and some time to experiment with wider repertoire and your playing. I got gd8 dist 20yrs ago and it took me 2 decades via a music degree and plenty of time not even playing to pluck up the courage to sit my DIP last year - and i got it with a distinction but only after lots of coaching and encouragement from a brilliant teacher helping me as a performing musician.

Had a horrible experience of having to take gd5 piano 5 times to pass it and get my place at uni (it was required back then!) i vowed never to retake again! I also dont play piano anymore and gave it up almost as soon as i got the gd5! Hope this helps.

Sometimes you have to look good on paper to get to the stage where you can impress them by sounding good.

I can see what you're saying, but from what I understand, the conservatoires audition all applicants, so it really doesn't matter about what you get at grade 8.

Out of interest what steps would everyone take to ensure they were progressing? Would they change anything? How could you be sure that you have actually progressed? Would this be entirely dependent on your own judgement?

I think that general progress in technique and musicianship is better than an improvement in 3 or 4 pieces and some specific tests. I would have a talk through with my teacher in order to assess strengths and weaknesses in technique and discuss ways forward. I would consider a change of teacher if I didn't think the current teacher could help me. I'd also spend lots of time going to concerts, reading relevant books and listening to recordings - anything to get ideas and gain a better understanding of music. I think you know when you've improved in technique because after a while, you get a kind of eureka moment when things make sense, and you can do things that you previously couldn't. Yes, I think it is quite a subjective thing that is dependent on people's judgement, but then music is a very subjective and personal thing. Exams can be a good indicator of where you're at, but they don't always mean a lot. For example, I got a good, solid merit at grade 8 singing, but I know that a lot of fundamental technique wasn't in place - I guess I just managed to blag my way through it.

[Listener]

Don't let it get you down, especially as you've time ahead of you to progress. Depends how important the mark is to you c.f. what else you can do with your time. Diploma would make G8 ~irrelevant?

Experience this year suggests even top (university) courses don't necessarily require the G8 Distinction piece of paper (e.g. daughter with 2 G8 distinctions rejected out of hand for one course; friend without a distinction, although well deserving of one, at least got an interview). Snapshot of Oxbridge offers also suggests playing is not a priority (Cambridge says as much). Take heart from that.

~off topic. But do work on your keyboard skills if you can, if only to make your life easier

Had a horrible experience of having to take gd5 piano 5 times to pass it and get my place at uni (it was required back then!)

Been niggling me that I supplied false info earlier in the year regarding what universities could ask for. This was in relation to how good your piano skills had to be to apply for BMus at university - daughter's are somewhat rudimentary. I said that I didn't think universities could stipulate anything other than academic (A level etc) grades. Wrong. Daughter was asked for Grade 5 piano by KCL. However, she HAD put on her application that she was taking it (fortunately she got it). I am pretty sure at least one person offered a place in the same round didn't have any piano (so lesson clear there - don't offer more than you have to!). Not being up to much on piano has [edit 19/5] NOT stopped her being offered places BUT life will be much easier for her if/when she can improve her piano playing. Lessons continue

[Mad Tom]

Daughter was asked for Grade 5 piano by KCL. However, she HAD put on her application that she was taking it (fortunately she got it). I am pretty sure at least one person offered a place in the same round didn't have any piano (so lesson clear there - don't offer more than you have to!). Not being up to much on piano has stopped her being offered places BUT life will be much easier for her if/when she can improve her piano playing. Lessons continue

I beleive Freddy Mercury took piano up to passing Grade 5, then no more exams. "Not being up to much on piano" did not seem to hamper his career!!