Where Are All The Oboists These Days? Options

[A.U.K]

Lordy Lord it seems that all the Oboe threads have vanished in my absence..I see there are a couple one about reeds (no surprise there then.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) and one by Notmusicmum about Dynamics but all the Oboe ones seem to have vanished..

I have been on my travels recouperating after a long spell in Hospital, having collapsed at the IDRS last summer in Birmingham on the first evening can you believe it..I wound up in Birmingham city Hospital and then got shipped off a few days later to West Bromwich with my Oboe and Cor in their double case..I would like to add that my dear friend Marsha Burkett a lovely American Oboist came completely to my rescue and ran back and forth to the hospital with messages and gifts from so many of the performers and companies with CD's etc, their genrosity and kindness astounded me..Thankfully I lived to tell the tale but it was a bad time..

So its nice to be back online I thought I would stop by and say hello..I hope everyone is well and enjoying their music making. See you all soon..

Andrew

[A.U.K]

Well this has turned into a lovely and very lively thread..allsorts of Oboe-ing goings on, reeds, instruments, chit chat..Very heartening to see a good Oboe thread alive and well..

Keep the posts coming,

Andrew

[Arundodonuts]

Further to recent comments I thought I would put forward a few thoughts on oboe reeds.

Note these are the ramblings of a rank novice who hasn't scraped a reed which can be played on yet. Please discuss if you think it's worthwhile - or put me in my place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

American reeds.
On the one hand, Europeans like to say that Americans scrape the life out of their reeds (I think it was Holliger who said it first). Americans counter that scraping windows in the reed helps the back to vibrate producing more low harmonics hence a richer sound.

Americans seem to think Europeans sound thin and reedy. Strangely, Europeans seem to think the same of the Americans.

European reeds.
Americans would expect European reeds to sound thin because the back won't vibrate freely and will depend mainly on tip vibration.

Europeans seem to be of the view that a reed needs some body in it to produce low harmonics. I've seen it argued that to produce low harmonics you need long fibres in the reed which means you shouldn't scrape the back of the reed too much as that reduces the number of long fibres.

Of course there are a huge number of other factors affecting the performance of a reed.

Diameter of the cane
Thickness of gouge
Profile of shaped reed
Tip width
etc. etc. etc.

Oh and the performance of a reed isn't just the tone. It's pitch stability, dynamics, playability and a host of other factors.

My unscientific research (which consists of listening to oboists) concludes that the player makes a bigger difference than the reed. Indeed I know one player who having learned for years on very heavy German scrape reeds and producing a big, rich sound (on a Loree!) now uses an American scrape (because the market she is in now demands it) and I can't detect much difference to the sound she makes.

There are of course different playing styles and for instance I think I'm right in suggesting that Americans play much closer to the tip than Europeans and move the reed in and out much more to adjust intonation. Maybe that suits (or is a result of) the American scrape - I don't know. I bet it means that American and European reeds don't vibrate in the same way - windows or not.

I know that I am capable (generally involuntarily) of a wide range of tones on the same reed even at my level so clearly other factors are at work. I believe a great deal of the variation is down to how the player "couples" the instrument to their own cavities (mouth, throat, etc.) which for a novice like me is not yet well developed and therefore variable.

I don't know if AUK and katica saw the Guy Porat lecture on reeds at IDRS last year but there was some food for thought there. His general view was that in the main, players should make life a little easier and use softer reeds than they currently use and that they should expect them to sound horrible compared to their usual ones in the first instance. But, with perseverance, they would get back to their original tone. So changing reed style probably wont change a players tone as much as they might think.

We all have (different) ideas of the sound we want to make and will adjust whatever is necessary to make that sound, irrespective of the reeds we use.

Of course that leads me to think that I should be able to make whatever sound I want with whatever bit of cane I choose to stick in my mouth. But I know it's not that easy and I'm currently contemplating smaller diameter cane to produce a wider mouth and a wider tip, so there.

[Roseau]

American reeds.
On the one hand, Europeans like to say that Americans scrape the life out of their reeds (I think it was Holliger who said it first). Americans counter that scraping windows in the reed helps the back to vibrate producing more low harmonics hence a richer sound.

On very unresponsive reeds, my teacher occasionally adds what look like American windows but which are lower down. (This is where I would need a diagramme to show what I mean). He said it was shown to him by an oboist called Jordanov who is now living in France but used to live in Canada.

Oh and the performance of a reed isn't just the tone. It's pitch stability, dynamics, playability and a host of other factors.

A reed is basically a compromise of all the different elements and different players prioritise different elements.

There are of course different playing styles and for instance I think I'm right in suggesting that Americans play much closer to the tip than Europeans and move the reed in and out much more to adjust intonation. Maybe that suits (or is a result of) the American scrape - I don't know. I bet it means that American and European reeds don't vibrate in the same way - windows or not.

I think it's the result of the American scrape. Very easy reeds and very thin tips tend not to be very stable pitch wise and require constant embouchure adjustment to play in tune. Americans also hold oboes at a different angle to Europeans which also effects the way the reeds vibrate.

We all have (different) ideas of the sound we want to make and will adjust whatever is necessary to make that sound, irrespective of the reeds we use.

My teacher spent a lesson last year proving to me that I could produce the sound I wanted on a number of very differently scraped reeds. What you are aiming for with your ideal reed is not one that produces the sound you want (they can (almost) all do that) but one that produces the sound you want with the least effort.

[Arundodonuts]

My teacher spent a lesson last year proving to me that I could produce the sound I wanted on a number of very differently scraped reeds. What you are aiming for with your ideal reed is not one that produces the sound you want (they can (almost) all do that) but one that produces the sound you want with the least effort.

Yes I've taken to rotating my reeds in such a way that I can't avoid playing on my dodgy or difficult reeds. That has shown me after some struggling that the way I play is mainly down to me NOT the reed. It's also good from the point of view that the perfect reed is very rare and has a short half life.

Ah yes, that American-European thing again...

I have a completely personal theory about this mutual perception. I think they mean different things by "thin". To folks over here (American-influenced largely) and even a bit to me, European (and quite a few British) players often sound reedy with bit of a "brassy" ring that folks here call "brilliant". I don't like using the world "brilliant" because I think it means something else to me. But somehow they associate that brightness/reediness with thinness. Of course this is a gross generalisation because many British and other players vary a lot, to the extent it's difficult really to say that there is a distinguishable British or European sound.

On the other hand, there are quite a few American-style players who have a clear, sweet sound but without that brassy reverberation that to European ears gives the sound more "meat" - and therefore also sound "thin" but in a different way.

Something like that, anyway.

Sounds good to me.

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

No, though Holliger (Swiss) has a thin, clear, or brilliant sound depending on your attitude.

[Wai Kit Leung]

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

No, though Holliger (Swiss) has a thin, clear, or brilliant sound depending on your attitude.

I think we shouldn't compare Holliger to German players. Holliger is Swiss, as you said, and was trained in Bern (by a teacher graduated from the Paris Conservatory) and in the Paris Conservatory. No relation to German players whatsoever.

[Arundodonuts]

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

No, though Holliger (Swiss) has a thin, clear, or brilliant sound depending on your attitude.

I think we shouldn't compare Holliger to German players. Holliger is Swiss, as you said, and was trained in Bern (by a teacher graduated from the Paris Conservatory) and in the Paris Conservatory. No relation to German players whatsoever.

Yes I know, but he comes from Langenthal which is German speaking, so perhaps he should have a German accent. Only joking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Wai Kit Leung]

Yes I know, but he comes from Langenthal which is German speaking, so perhaps he should have a German accent. Only joking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

He does speak German and does have a German accent, but only in his speech, not in his oboe playing.
I haven't known of any prominent Swiss oboists who play in the German style.