Where Are All The Oboists These Days? Options

[flobiano]

I'd be interested to hear how you get on Roseau. I read that article too and will be having a go with the exercises over the weekend. I have been thinking more about where I place my tongue on the reed and which part of the tongue I use. Have done some experiments but no conlusive findings yet, except I think I probably have to go closer to the tip on each. I also have problems with tongueing upsetting my air flow and my embouchure which indicates, to me, that something isn't quite right.

Katica - how are you getting on? Hope you are back home now and getting back into things.

Arondudonuts, Hardying, AUK - how are you getting on?

I have put the Reizenstein to one side now, the final movement grew on me quite a bit in the end but I'm not overly sorry to have finished it. I've just started the first movement of the Mozart Quartet - so nice light, clean articulation is the order of the day (in my dreams if not reality!).

I also had my first Rite of Spring rehearsal with my teacher's orchestra. I'm playing 3rd oboe (the 4th doubles on Cor). It went better than expected, I couldn't play most of the notes but at least I could keep up enough to know which notes I should be playing and when I should be coming in - most of the time anyway. Having listened to it on YouTube I was worried I'd spend the whole rehearsal being completely lost. So I have some hope that it will become playable! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[katica]

I had my first lesson, "solfeo" and band rehearsal on Tuesday. I was sooooooooo happy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My teacher obviously doesn't read his e-mails as I had written to remind him that I'd be back from Canada for classes on Feb 14 but he wasn't expecting me. I don't think he was much in the mood for a formal lesson and he hadn't brought the new method I'm supposed to start on. All we did was work on sound and exercises for correcting my 4th/5th finger and hand positions, in a "do what I do" format. I loved it! I've been needing that for months!

He was really, really worried about our salsa concert and threatening the Director with calling it off as the rehearsal had been really slow last week... but then we had a really good rehearsal. It was such fun! And we actually got some compliments for once!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Mind you, I'm worried now as we only managed to whack one relatively easy piece into shape. We only have six rehearsals until the concert and the pro extras will only be there for the last two... with a dozen pieces on the menu, this means two to three pieces per week and I have no idea how we are going to manage. Some of them are quite difficult! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I rather hope I don't have to tackle any new stuff on my own and we can do salsa in lessons too.

The flautist and I started work on Gordon Jacob's Inventions for flute and oboe. They're not really hard (maybe around G6?) but it's going to take a while to get them up to speed. We really like them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Arundodonuts]

I'd be interested to hear how you get on Roseau. I read that article too and will be having a go with the exercises over the weekend.

Arondudonuts, Hardying, AUK - how are you getting on?

I think my teacher has been reading that article (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) This week's trick is fast legato scales with the aim to get them as smooth and fast as possible, plus fast tongued semi-quavers, then combine the two (fast, even, tongued scales). So that'll fill in a few hours then!

I have put the Reizenstein to one side now, the final movement grew on me quite a bit in the end but I'm not overly sorry to have finished it.

Also new this week - Reizenstein Sonatina.

[Roseau]

I'd be interested to hear how you get on Roseau. I read that article too and will be having a go with the exercises over the weekend.

What I found really useful was her saying that French and English are not the same and influence the way you articulate on the oboe, confirming something I have sensed and proving I am not going slowly mad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I turned up to my lesson today waving the article and saying I have finally understood why I don't understand. My teacher (ever the optomist) asked if it had made a difference to my playing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I said not yet, but I hoped it would (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Actually, inspired by this, I did a bit of research on the internet and found several articles comparing English and French mouth shape/tonge position and the effects this has on playing woodwind instruments. This has given me lots to think about, but will take me a while to assimilate.

What I found helpful in the BDRS article was the idea of saying "L" rather than "t" to check the air-stream and the idea of thinking of the air as a conveyor belt at the front of the mouth. I am less convinced by the relaxed dog tongue (but I am also not sure that I have fully understood what she means).

I also had my first Rite of Spring rehearsal with my teacher's orchestra. I'm playing 3rd oboe (the 4th doubles on Cor). It went better than expected, I couldn't play most of the notes but at least I could keep up enough to know which notes I should be playing and when I should be coming in - most of the time anyway. Having listened to it on YouTube I was worried I'd spend the whole rehearsal being completely lost. So I have some hope that it will become playable! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You are so lucky to have this experience (*jealous*)

I had my first lesson, "solfeo" and band rehearsal on Tuesday. I was sooooooooo happy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Here's hoping it's the first of many (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He was really, really worried about our salsa concert and threatening the Director with calling it off as the rehearsal had been really slow last week... but then we had a really good rehearsal. It was such fun! And we actually got some compliments for once!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Maybe you're a band that works under pressure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The flautist and I started work on Gordon Jacob's Inventions for flute and oboe. They're not really hard (maybe around G6?) but it's going to take a while to get them up to speed. We really like them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My flautist friend is convinced that they're impossible and won't even try sight-reading them with me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[katica]

The flautist and I started work on Gordon Jacob's Inventions for flute and oboe. They're not really hard (maybe around G6?) but it's going to take a while to get them up to speed. We really like them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My flautist friend is convinced that they're impossible and won't even try sight-reading them with me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Oh no. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
We just took the first one andante. The second one (poco largo, if I remember rightly) is lovely. Very ghostly. I'm a bit worried that they are not to the taste of our usual recital public, who like a good tune, but fortunately my flautist pal has taken to them so much she's convinced we should play them whatever anyone else thinks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm also very envious of the Rite of Spring experience! Good for you for managing to follow it, flobiano! It has the reputation of being a tough piece to play.

Roseau, I saw your remarks about the language-articulation article over on the sax thread and it sounded fascinating. I was going to ask for a link, if on the internet, but I guess if it's in a BDRS publication it won't be... I'd appreciate any links to the other things you find, though.

Funnily enough, I was just thinking about this the other day. I was in the car and taking a bit of Nick Daniel's advice and playing my reed as I drove along and realised it was quite useful for articulation as well as long note practice. (Not a good idea to play with closed eyes, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ) And I wondered whether, being English and having slightly different-sounding consonants (even when speaking Spanish, I suspect) makes some kinds of articulation easier or more difficult than others. What do you find easier/more difficult, kerioboe?

I was finding legato-tongued notes a bit difficult on the reed only. Reed only practice is not completely reliable, though - sometimes having the oboe on the end of it does change how the airflow feels...

I don't know the Reizenstein Sonatina, arundodonuts. But always on the look out for repertoire, especially if not played much here. How are you liking it?

[louise1712]

complete newbie here, and a quick question if I may poke my head round the door. I have the clari, flute and cornet versions of learn as you play and rather like them, and am wondering how the oboe version is rated by oboists or if a different tutor book is preferred. I realise that the book used depends on its suitability to the player, just curious as to which others are used.

[Roseau]

I'd appreciate any links to the other things you find, though.

I'll post them tomorrow (if I can find them again).

And I wondered whether, being English and having slightly different-sounding consonants (even when speaking Spanish, I suspect) makes some kinds of articulation easier or more difficult than others.

I think the problem is not so much being English or French or Spanish or whatever but having someone who does not share your mother tongue explaining things to you. This was really clear to me in my lesson last week when my teacher got me to blow without anything in my mouth (neither reed nor oboe) while saying "t-t-t-t". He demonstrated but my attempt sounded nothing like his. The difference was strking to both of us but all he could say was that I wasn't doing a "proper" "t" and all I could do was maintain that I was. I did know that a French t is dental and the English t is alveolar but this didn't seem sufficient to explain the huge difference. It was only after reading something on the internet this week that I realised that the real problem was that the English t in initial words is also aspirated and that gets in the way of clear tonguing because you momentarily block the air. The BDRS article suggests using "L-L-L" with your finger in front of your mouth to get the feel of a constant air-flow, so I have been starting with L and then trying to turn it into t without breaking the airflow.

Something I discovered in another article is that English speakers have a tendancy to diphthong all tense vowels making them inherently unstable so when he wants me to make a French "o" sound, instead of having something more fixed I end up with something even more unstable than it usually is. The ridiculous thing is that I teach English phonetics and I actually tell my students that in English they have to speak with a more mobile, lips, jaw and tongue and forget about French precision so you would have thought I could have applied the reverse to myself without needing somebody to point it out to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Similarly with the French "u," English speakers either diphtong it (as in the English word "pew") or raise the back of the tongue instead of the front (as in the English word "too") which does result in a stable shape but restricts the air-flow.

This tendency to diphthong everything, and to raise the back of the tongue, explains why a lot of English teachers tell their pupils to open their throats by yawning rather than by using a particular vowel shape.

Edit for Louise, my teacher uses Learn as you play with all his students in France so I used it when I first started and liked it.

[louise1712]

Edit for Louise, my teacher uses Learn as you play with all his students in France so I used it when I first started and liked it.

Thanks Roseau, I'll stick with that book then.

[katica]

Edit for Louise, my teacher uses Learn as you play with all his students in France so I used it when I first started and liked it.

Thanks Roseau, I'll stick with that book then.

I've got it too. I think you'll blast through it quite quickly, though, if you spend much time on the oboe. I only used it by myself in parallel to a similar method that my teacher gave me and quite quickly moved on to other stuff. I think having had a basic grounding on other wind instruments helps a lot.

What you will need to spend more time on is embouchure, sound and so forth as well as adapting to different fingering. It would be good to have a teacher for those things that the method book can't adequately teach you, or at least some oboist friend who can help you out a bit.

[katica]

I think the problem is not so much being English or French or Spanish or whatever but having someone who does not share your mother tongue explaining things to you. This was really clear to me in my lesson last week when my teacher got me to blow without anything in my mouth (neither reed nor oboe) while saying "t-t-t-t". He demonstrated but my attempt sounded nothing like his. The difference was strking to both of us but all he could say was that I wasn't doing a "proper" "t" and all I could do was maintain that I was. I did know that a French t is dental and the English t is alveolar but this didn't seem sufficient to explain the huge difference. It was only after reading something on the internet this week that I realised that the real problem was that the English t in initial words is also aspirated and that gets in the way of clear tonguing because you momentarily block the air. The BDRS article suggests using "L-L-L" with your finger in front of your mouth to get the feel of a constant air-flow, so I have been starting with L and then trying to turn it into t without breaking the airflow.

Something I discovered in another article is that English speakers have a tendancy to diphthong all tense vowels making them inherently unstable so when he wants me to make a French "o" sound, instead of having something more fixed I end up with something even more unstable than it usually is. The ridiculous thing is that I teach English phonetics and I actually tell my students that in English they have to speak with a more mobile, lips, jaw and tongue and forget about French precision so you would have thought I could have applied the reverse to myself without needing somebody to point it out to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Similarly with the French "u," English speakers either diphtong it (as in the English word "pew") or raise the back of the tongue instead of the front (as in the English word "too") which does result in a stable shape but restricts the air-flow.

This tendency to diphthong everything, and to raise the back of the tongue, explains why a lot of English teachers tell their pupils to open their throats by yawning rather than by using a particular vowel shape.
and liked it.

This is really interesting. I hope I can get my hands on that article some time...

Being a linguist myself, albeit a long time ago, you'd think I could also have worked out more for myself.

I'd never thought about the French T being dental. The Spanish one is usually described as "denti-alveolar" but also not aspirated. I can see that the aspiration would make more difference than where the T is actually produced - so you get a particularly hard attack with an English T I presume.

I do think that tongue direction (dental, alveolar, or something else) is an element in some articulations, such as legato tonguing. Or maybe it's more helpful to think about which bit of the tongue touches the reed? Must go away and have another try...

I hadn't thought, either, about the effect of ubiquitous dipthonging in English on the stability of musical sound. Spanish uses quite "pure" vowels so it's not such an issue and "o" is also the usual instruction here too. I don't think I'm translating into English when receiving instructions from my teacher but I'd better pay attention in the future to whether it's creeping in and we're not actually understanding each other...

There's not much point in me trying to have any conversation with him about it, however. He's definitely started term with some determination to stop me intellectualising too much. Or talking at all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[louise1712]

Edit for Louise, my teacher uses Learn as you play with all his students in France so I used it when I first started and liked it.

Thanks Roseau, I'll stick with that book then.

I've got it too. I think you'll blast through it quite quickly, though, if you spend much time on the oboe. I only used it by myself in parallel to a similar method that my teacher gave me and quite quickly moved on to other stuff. I think having had a basic grounding on other wind instruments helps a lot.

What you will need to spend more time on is embouchure, sound and so forth as well as adapting to different fingering. It would be good to have a teacher for those things that the method book can't adequately teach you, or at least some oboist friend who can help you out a bit.

Thanks katica, am hoping to get an occasional lesson in to look at the areas you mentioned. Have borrowed the learn as you play from the library, just need the oboe now!

[Arundodonuts]

I don't know the Reizenstein Sonatina, arundodonuts. But always on the look out for repertoire, especially if not played much here. How are you liking it?

Er. Well I've opened it!!

I'll report when I've had a go.

[katica]

I was hoping to get a good few hours practice in today and tomorrow but have a horrible cold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[louise1712]

I was hoping to get a good few hours practice in today and tomorrow but have a horrible cold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Aw, hope you feel better soon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've made some noise with a reed today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and browsed musicroom for possible books......

[katica]

I was hoping to get a good few hours practice in today and tomorrow but have a horrible cold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Aw, hope you feel better soon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've made some noise with a reed today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and browsed musicroom for possible books......

That's a really good way to start. My teacher started me without an oboe (I didn't have one anyway), just trying to get nice, stable long notes on the reed alone.

I started on a US method equivalent to Learn as You Play and then moved on to Rubank (popuar in the US). Then I bought the Gekeler Method (also popular in the US but my teacher didn't know it). Book II has been more useful than Book I. Hinke is popular in the UK and a good equivalent.

One of the things I bought for fun early on and really enjoyed for a break was Pam Wedgwood's Really Easy Jazzin' About. A couple of these pieces come up in the early grade exams. I also bought a CD from Howarths with easy pieces, which also come with accompaniment tracks, called Ready, Steady, Blow. To tell the truth, I'm not that fond of the sound of some of the young oboists but it was a useful purchase anyway. Two or three pieces from Learn as You Play are included.

Another purchase with accompaniment CD that I bought fairly early on was a Music Minus One edition by oboist Elaine Douvas. After just a few months I was playing some of these pieces. Goodness knows how I sounded but ignorance was bliss - I didn't know it but some of the pieces that seemed quite manageable to me are in fact on the G5 syllabus. These days I seem to be much more easily scared off stuff I should be able to play because I am all too aware how really horrible it sounds... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Happy tooting, Louise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

PS Another reason for seeing a teacher from time to time is to have your reeds adjusted. It really makes a big difference to how well and easily they play. Even good quality handmade bought reeds can vary quite a lot and they change as you play them. You'll probably want softish ones to begin with, just like on the clarinet.