Where Are All The Oboists These Days? Options

[Roseau]

I am now just now celebrating my second "oboe birthday". My teacher has just thrown the Schumann Romances at me, which is rather daunting and a bit worrying. I don't think I should be allowed to massacre such beautiful pieces and I'm a bit astonished that he's letting me loose on them at all.

My teacher gave Robert Schumann's Romances to me at about the same stage and made me start with the 2nd one, which I think is the hardest of the three. At the time I never questioned his choices but recently I asked him why he had given me such impossibly difficult pieces at such an early stage (this was one, Poulenc was another). He was a bit taken aback and said he had thought of them as challenging, rather than hard.

When I asked him why the 2nd one rather than the 1st or 3rd, he said it was because the 2nd was his favourite and I thought how can he bear to have pupils massacring his favourite pieces.

[A.U.K]

I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say but I don't like the Schumann Romances one little bit..Shame on me but I dont, however hard I try, I listen to them and can't find anything about them I enjoy..I find I am quite indifferent to them..surely I can't be the only one..

Andrew

[Roseau]

I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say but I don't like the Schumann Romances one little bit..Shame on me but I dont, however hard I try, I listen to them and can't find anything about them I enjoy..I find I am quite indifferent to them..surely I can't be the only one..

Andrew

What about Clara's? I really like the 1st one of hers (it's what I'm playing at the moment).

[A.U.K]

I havent had a look at Clara's I am ashamed to say...I do have the music so maybe one day I had dig them out.

[Roseau]

I havent had a look at Clara's I am ashamed to say...I do have the music so maybe one day I had dig them out.

Oboeclassics have a recording of it and you can listen to the first few bars on their website. (It really does need the piano with it to appreciate it fully).

There is a bar which goes up to 3rd octave G and I had just about mastered it on my Marigaux (the changes of fingers are very awkward) and the keys on the XL are not quite in the same place so I feel I am back to square one. I now can't decide what to do with it. Obviously practising on the Marigaux is going to be counter productive but I am unwilling to use up my precious time on the XL battling with something in a register I don't particularly like (when it has such beautiful low notes). Maybe I should just leave it aside for a couple of weeks (but not too long because I want to play it with the piano before the end of the school year in June).

[katica]

I am now just now celebrating my second "oboe birthday". My teacher has just thrown the Schumann Romances at me, which is rather daunting and a bit worrying. I don't think I should be allowed to massacre such beautiful pieces and I'm a bit astonished that he's letting me loose on them at all.

My teacher gave Robert Schumann's Romances to me at about the same stage and made me start with the 2nd one, which I think is the hardest of the three. At the time I never questioned his choices but recently I asked him why he had given me such impossibly difficult pieces at such an early stage (this was one, Poulenc was another). He was a bit taken aback and said he had thought of them as challenging, rather than hard.

When I asked him why the 2nd one rather than the 1st or 3rd, he said it was because the 2nd was his favourite and I thought how can he bear to have pupils massacring his favourite pieces.

I agree about No2 and my prof is quite capable of throwing me in the deep end too for the exact same reason. He was in an unusually easy going mood on Tuesday. . . Maybe he's saving it up for when I get back from the UK and he tells me I have to play all 3 in a recital the following week. Or something equally beastly to keep me sweating. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say but I don't like the Schumann Romances one little bit..Shame on me but I dont, however hard I try, I listen to them and can't find anything about them I enjoy..I find I am quite indifferent to them..surely I can't be the only one..

Andrew

Oh Andrew you ARE refreshing!

I am still at the puppy love stage with all things oboe related. It's been such a surprise (a pleasant one) to feel that rush of enthusiasm again like discovering the world when you're young and idealistic. 'm enjoying it while it lasts!

However I also look forward to wisening up with the help of the rest of you.

[notmusimum]

Need to pick the Oboists brains. Which Oboes have 3rd Octave key and at what point are they needed?

[A.U.K]

Hello Bernie

Most full system (Gillet system semi automatic octaves) Oboes should have a thrid octave key and I would say that anything above top E would be in need of the third octave key..some oboes even need a hand with top E but usually not, anything above that its a help to have a third octave key..

I might add that the third octave key does help with Altissimo entries on the higher notes, it just makes the whole thing a tad easier..some players will of course be able to go right up to top G and G# without the third octave but I suspect in some cases though not all, thats like the "Big Fish" talk that anglers are used to..

Berni its subjective really, I rarely use mine but I rarely go above top F or F# and even then I dont go up there too often so I dont use the 3rd octave key very much.

Andrew

[Roseau]

Most full system (Gillet system semi automatic octaves) Oboes should have a thrid octave key and I would say that anything above top E would be in need of the third octave key..some oboes even need a hand with top E but usually not, anything above that its a help to have a third octave key..

I'm glad notmusimum asked this question as I was going to ask something similar.

My teacher taught me to use the third octave key for E and all the notes above. When I tried the oboes in Howarths, Mike said that the correct fingering was to use the 1st octave key for E and F and the 3rd octave key only for F# and above.

When my teacher tried my new oboe, his initial reaction was that the E and F were too sharp so I told him what Mike had said about the fingering. He tried them with the 1st octave key and they were in tune but he then offered to adjust the opening of the 3rd octave key so I could play them with what he considers to be the correct fingering. I told him I would try with the 1st octave key for a while and if I couldn't get used to a new fingering I would ask him to adjust it.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on third octave keys?

Like Andrew, I don't use the highest notes very much. I do a chromatic scale up to G# but have yet to encounter a G# in any music. I do other scales and exercices up to top G and have one piece with a top G in it. One of the windbands I play in has music which goes up to top F# occasionally (rather a lot in one particular piece where I'm convinced that the composer was confusing the oboe with a flute, although when I looked at the flute part that went even higher).

[notmusimum]

I think it's a problem with Grade 8 scales where the notes won't come out. It's F# particularly. Unless of course anyone knows alternative fingerings that might help on an S40.

It seems there is no rush but just now is a good time for us to beg for funding.

What's the difference between the S5 and the XL? I'm sure one of you brain boxes will have the answer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Roseau]

I think it's a problem with Grade 8 scales where the notes won't come out. It's F# particularly. Unless of course anyone knows alternative fingerings that might help on an S40.

It seems there is no rush but just now is a good time for us to beg for funding.

What's the difference between the S5 and the XL? I'm sure one of you brain boxes will have the answer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I thought the S40 had a 3rd octave key? I use two different fingerings for F# depending on what notes are before or after.
Either like an A with the C key in the right-hand and the 3rd octave key.
Or just the first finger in the left hand, 2nd and 3rd fingers in the left hand and G# and Eb keys (either left or right hand) and 3rd octave key.

If she has got a 3rd octave key, adjusting the key can help but I suggest she asks her teacher rather than trying to do it herself (also her teacher can check it is a problem with the oboe and not with Emsoboe before making any adjustments).

Reasons why the top notes won't come out include:
- lack of breath support
- too slow an air-stream
- tensing up and biting down on the reed,
- a not very good reed

Things I found helped:
- learning an even higher note (that way the one before seems easier)
- playing a chromatic scale up to the note with a huge crescendo (gets the air-stream moving faster)
- doing an exercise first to make sure my throat is open
- playing the passage down an octave and then at the correct octave making sure I can feel the same open sensation in my throat.

The biggest difference between the S5 and the XL for me was the responsiveness of the XL to changes in the air-stream. This gives it a huge dynamic range (but, as I mentioned in an earlier post, can make it feel unstable). I'm not sure that I can be terribly precise about the rest but basically it is smoother to play (both in the way the keys move and in its tone).

That said, before I went to Howarths I wrote and asked them what the difference was (if I can find their e-mail I'll send it to you) but one of the things the said was that some people prefer one and some prefer the other.

[Arundodonuts]

I think it's a problem with Grade 8 scales where the notes won't come out. It's F# particularly. Unless of course anyone knows alternative fingerings that might help on an S40.

It seems there is no rush but just now is a good time for us to beg for funding.

What's the difference between the S5 and the XL? I'm sure one of you brain boxes will have the answer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I thought the S40 had a 3rd octave key?

Current S40s have a 3rd octave key. Older ones (not that old) like mine and, I believe, Emsoboe's, don't.

I'm not at those dizzy heights yet but I just had a go using the alternatives in the ABRSM scales book. I reckon this one works:

Left hand 1 and 2 (don't half hole or lift the 1st finger), 1st octave key, right hand 1 and 2 (and possibly add the RH F key).

[katica]

My Patricola doesn't have a third octave key either.

E and F are fine. (Well, not fine but that's my fault...) and I have been known to squeak out up to G# but not very often and it depends a lot on the reed.

My impression is that the fingering to choose depends a lot on the oboe. Maybe even on the individual oboe and not just the system, make and model.

I had a dispute with my oboe teacher on Tuesday, for instance. When I was playing around a while back with the limits of my capacities, I "discovered" a high E flat fingering that happened to correspond to a position in the ARBSM scale book. I find that that the preferred fingerings used here for high E, Eb,F etc are terribly complicated so I was a bit surprised to find scales like 2-octave Eb appearing as low as Grade 4. Of course, with the suggested ABRSM fingering it's much easier. But my teacher wasn't having it.

My oboe also has other quirks. For instance, I find the low forked F sounds just fine while the left-hand F sounds "stuffy", which seems to go against conventional wisdom. My teacher recommends using the left-hand B key to stabilise G2 but I find it doesn't make much difference on my oboe.

On the other hand, I do all sorts of things with my right hand to keep that horrible C2 from blaring and have found myself resorting to harmonic variations for a long A, B flat, B (second octave), especially if the final pp of a concert piece.

But I do wonder how "valid" it is to do this. Especially as I'm quite a new player and I don't want to end up just using these devices to cover up problems generated by bad breath support and the other things in kerioboe's list, all of which I have problems with. On the other hand, I tend to thing that, "on the day", anything goes if it saves myself or my colleagues from complete embarrassment.

[A.U.K]

Katica, I presume you play a conservatoire system i.e no thumbplate as you mention the C blaring out, are you refering to the C above bottom C? If so, close down the 123 of your right hand and just keep the index finger on the left hand down for C..the right hand closing up the the F#, E and D will stabilise it and make the transistion to the D above the C far easier, quicker and smoother.. You will need to adjust the air flow a bit, step back of it for 2nd Oct C but only a tad just to keep it uniform..

What Keri said about increasing the air flow for the thrid octave is very sound advice, play a scale with a crescendo rather like a singer would, open the throat keep it all very relaxed and let the air through and simply sing the notes out using the Oboe instead of the voice. A Chromatic scale is a great way to work yourself up in steps into the uppper octave and in time you will find that short fingerings are (in fast passages )sometimes the best way to get the hihgest notes..

Low f can be a funny note, my forked low f is stuffy so I add the Eb key and that makes it better, the Left hand F is fine but each Oboe is different..

In the end it all boils down to what works on your particular Oboe, and I think you will find that most Oboists have little tricks and add on fingerings that work for them..

Andrew

[Roseau]

Katica, I presume you play a conservatoire system i.e no thumbplate as you mention the C blaring out, are you refering to the C above bottom C? If so, close down the 123 of your right hand and just keep the index finger on the left hand down for C..the right hand closing up the the F#, E and D will stabilise it and make the transistion to the D above the C far easier, quicker and smoother.. You will need to adjust the air flow a bit, step back of it for 2nd Oct C but only a tad just to keep it uniform..

Experiment with which fingers to put down to stabilise the C. On my Marigaux, you needed just the third finger of the right hand (ie D) and (depending on the reed) sometimes just resting it on the key rather than actually pressing it down was sufficient. One of the nice things about the XL is that the C is not noticeably different to the other notes.

Low f can be a funny note, my forked low f is stuffy so I add the Eb key and that makes it better, the Left hand F is fine but each Oboe is different..

This was true of my Marigaux but again the XL has a forked F which sounds exactly the same as the other F. (This was one of the things which most impressed my teacher).

Katica, I think there is probably something wrong with the way your oboe is adjusted if the left F sounds different to when you play it using the F key with your right hand, since whether you use your left or right hand to play it, exactly the same keys are open in exactly the same way.

As for harmonics, I use them in windbands as well occasionally. They are actually quite good for practising breath support as if you're not supporting them properly they won't come out. Have you tried alternating long notes with the harmonic fingering and the normal fingering and trying to keep the breath support identical for both. One of the things my teacher told me to check when chosing an oboe was that the harmonic fingerings and normal fingerings were in tune with each other.