Where Are All The Oboists These Days? Options

[A.U.K]

Hello Isi, welcome to the Oboists thread, well one of them at least. Firstly congratulations on your first steps learning the Oboe..you will find the Oboe a lovely instrument to play and if I have one piece of advice I would simply say "Listen" always listen to the sound and tone quality you are producing, for an Oboist there is nothing more important. Keep the mouth soft and rounded like a OOOO shape and allow the reed to sing. Your teacher will make sure your embouchure develops properly. A little work every day will see that you soon develop strength and stamina you will be pleasantly surprised.

I hope you will join us here more regularly now and tell us what you are doing and what you are playing and how you are getting on won't you..Ask any questions you may have but bear in mind your Oboe teacher will have the last word on how to do things. I am sure you will soon be playing Handels Sonatas, Geminianni and many pieces that we have all played so keep at it, you will soon be making great strides..

And again, welcome Isi

Andrew

[Roseau]

American reeds.
On the one hand, Europeans like to say that Americans scrape the life out of their reeds (I think it was Holliger who said it first). Americans counter that scraping windows in the reed helps the back to vibrate producing more low harmonics hence a richer sound.

On very unresponsive reeds, my teacher occasionally adds what look like American windows but which are lower down. (This is where I would need a diagramme to show what I mean). He said it was shown to him by an oboist called Jordanov who is now living in France but used to live in Canada.

Oh and the performance of a reed isn't just the tone. It's pitch stability, dynamics, playability and a host of other factors.

A reed is basically a compromise of all the different elements and different players prioritise different elements.

There are of course different playing styles and for instance I think I'm right in suggesting that Americans play much closer to the tip than Europeans and move the reed in and out much more to adjust intonation. Maybe that suits (or is a result of) the American scrape - I don't know. I bet it means that American and European reeds don't vibrate in the same way - windows or not.

I think it's the result of the American scrape. Very easy reeds and very thin tips tend not to be very stable pitch wise and require constant embouchure adjustment to play in tune. Americans also hold oboes at a different angle to Europeans which also effects the way the reeds vibrate.

We all have (different) ideas of the sound we want to make and will adjust whatever is necessary to make that sound, irrespective of the reeds we use.

My teacher spent a lesson last year proving to me that I could produce the sound I wanted on a number of very differently scraped reeds. What you are aiming for with your ideal reed is not one that produces the sound you want (they can (almost) all do that) but one that produces the sound you want with the least effort.

[katica]

Hi Andrew

I am by no means an oboist, but a very enthusiastic beginner! (3 lessons so far (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )
I read any and all oboe threads with huge interest, and spend most of my time feeling completely flummoxed!

I look forward to one day being able to join in conversations about reeds, technique, fingerings, repertoire etc etc but at this point am still struggling with how to tongue!

Everyone on here seems very knowledgable and keen to help so I look forward to more interesting threads in the future!

Of course you are an oboist! And don't worry - feeling flummoxed will very quickly give way to complete addiction to all this "stuff". So glad it's going well...

My first teacher used reeds built like pieces of steel and my current teacher is similar, so I've got used to the tougher european scrape and have a very strong embouchure now - as I discovered when I cracked an expensive Fortay reed!

This happened to me in the middle of a recital! Mind you, my reed wasn't like "steel" but had been rather overly well "domesticated"- "had the life scraped out of it" no doubt some of you would say, and well "played ". I finished my piece (fortunately) but had to rush outside for a new reed, do a doublequick warm-up and rush back on for a duet. Horrible!

As a cheap alternative for an adjustable thumbrest, buy a clarinet one. They are much cheaper than oboe ones and fit. I bought one via mail order for my oboe and cor anglais after seeing a post on here somewhere. (I think Skylark started it).

Good tip! I just found out that my teacher did the exact same thing on his Lor?e.



ON REEDS... fascinating AUK and kerioboe. I wish we could meet up so I could actually see what you're talking about. I can sort of imagine but not quite...

Note these are the ramblings of a rank novice who hasn't scraped a reed which can be played on yet. Please discuss if you think it's worthwhile - or put me in my place

American reeds.
On the one hand, Europeans like to say that Americans scrape the life out of their reeds (I think it was Holliger who said it first). Americans counter that scraping windows in the reed helps the back to vibrate producing more low harmonics hence a richer sound.

Americans seem to think Europeans sound thin and reedy. Strangely, Europeans seem to think the same of the Americans.

pushpull - where would be that place that we could possibly put you???!!!

Ah yes, that American-European thing again...

I have a completely personal theory about this mutual perception. I think they mean different things by "thin". To folks over here (American-influenced largely) and even a bit to me, European (and quite a few British) players often sound reedy with bit of a "brassy" ring that folks here call "brilliant". I don't like using the world "brilliant" because I think it means something else to me. But somehow they associate that brightness/reediness with thinness. Of course this is a gross generalisation because many British and other players vary a lot, to the extent it's difficult really to say that there is a distinguishable British or European sound.

On the other hand, there are quite a few American-style players who have a clear, sweet sound but without that brassy reverberation that to European ears gives the sound more "meat" - and therefore also sound "thin" but in a different way.

Something like that, anyway.

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

My unscientific research (which consists of listening to oboists) concludes that the player makes a bigger difference than the reed. Indeed I know one player who having learned for years on very heavy German scrape reeds and producing a big, rich sound (on a Loree!) now uses an American scrape (because the market she is in now demands it) and I can't detect much difference to the sound she makes.

I'm still "out" on this one. Certainly my teacher has a quite rich, full sound in all registers - more than some other very good oboists who studied with the same teachers and scrape similar American-style reeds. I think he sounds a bit closer to a "German" sound, if that exists. (Indeed, his fantasy is a Ludwig Frank oboe.)

On the other hand, I know that different reeds can make quite a big difference to my own sound. A while back I had a favourite reed which was almost at its perfect point (it's a shame that doesn't last, isn't it?!). Then my teacher made me a new reed, with new materials I had bought in Birmingham last year. Usually I struggle a bit with new reeds - it takes a few days for me to like them. But almost immediately this was a huge pleasure. Though a bit hard at first it produced a wonderful dark, vibrant sound. At section practice with the flutes, though, I noticed it needed a bit of adjustment (very slightly flat) so I got out my other reed and warmed up... They all turned round and gasped! The sound of the older reed was so noticeably more bright and reedy that one of them actually thought I had changed to a completely different instrument! Sadly, the lovely dark reed only lasted about three weeks...

But I suppose kerioboe's teacher would prove to me that I could have produced something better on my old brassy reed?

[A.U.K]

The reed debate will continue forever..there is no difinitive answer to any of it..different people like different things and that will always remain..batches of cane can vary dramatically, the gouge can affect it as can the shape and the scrape..Its highly subjective...I would always say, take the reeds you have, dont expect perfection and make the best you can from what you have..you will rarely have a reed that does everything you ask of it in the manner you prefer. A lovely friend of mine went to her first lesson with George Caird years ago at the Royal Academy and he asked her to take out her best reed, he then asked her to take out her second best reed and told her to use that as she would rarely have the perfect reed at her disposal..also after her first lesson she was told to never bring a shop bought reed into a lesson ever again and she had to go away and start making them which she duly did has, not without some considerable practice made wonderful reeds ever since..

Enjoy your reeds, dont labour over them..if you have a really duff one, have a go at it and see if you can improve it..if not bin it, dont do what I do and keep them all..I have dozens if not hundreds of old reeds..I cant bear to throw away but I must, I really must..

So what music are we all working on at the moment..? do tell, it doesnt matter what standard it is, lets have a chin wag about that..always interesting to hear what people are playing and how they are getting along with it..

Andrew

[Arundodonuts]

My teacher spent a lesson last year proving to me that I could produce the sound I wanted on a number of very differently scraped reeds. What you are aiming for with your ideal reed is not one that produces the sound you want (they can (almost) all do that) but one that produces the sound you want with the least effort.

Yes I've taken to rotating my reeds in such a way that I can't avoid playing on my dodgy or difficult reeds. That has shown me after some struggling that the way I play is mainly down to me NOT the reed. It's also good from the point of view that the perfect reed is very rare and has a short half life.

Ah yes, that American-European thing again...

I have a completely personal theory about this mutual perception. I think they mean different things by "thin". To folks over here (American-influenced largely) and even a bit to me, European (and quite a few British) players often sound reedy with bit of a "brassy" ring that folks here call "brilliant". I don't like using the world "brilliant" because I think it means something else to me. But somehow they associate that brightness/reediness with thinness. Of course this is a gross generalisation because many British and other players vary a lot, to the extent it's difficult really to say that there is a distinguishable British or European sound.

On the other hand, there are quite a few American-style players who have a clear, sweet sound but without that brassy reverberation that to European ears gives the sound more "meat" - and therefore also sound "thin" but in a different way.

Something like that, anyway.

Sounds good to me.

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

No, though Holliger (Swiss) has a thin, clear, or brilliant sound depending on your attitude.

[Arundodonuts]

A lovely friend of mine went to her first lesson with George Caird years ago at the Royal Academy and he asked her to take out her best reed, he then asked her to take out her second best reed and told her to use that as she would rarely have the perfect reed at her disposal..also after her first lesson she was told to never bring a shop bought reed into a lesson ever again and she had to go away and start making them which she duly did has, not without some considerable practice made wonderful reeds ever since..

I was speaking to someone a while ago who had studied with Evelyn Barbirolli and she told the tale of going to Leon Goosens for lessons. He would have a go on her reeds and say "Oh you can't play on that one", take it off her and not give it back. He was, of course, saving the best ones for himself. She eventually started handing over her cast-offs and keeping tight lipped about the good ones.

So what music are we all working on at the moment..? do tell, it doesnt matter what standard it is, lets have a chin wag about that..always interesting to hear what people are playing and how they are getting along with it..

Well I've been "taking stock" following Grade 5, playing a few things from the syllabus I didn't look at before. Nothing terribly exciting. Also some technical work - articulation, vibrato, low notes using orchestral excerpts and Ferling (gulp).

I have a pile of Grade 6 music I'm sorting through. It starts to look like "proper" stuff at this stage. Albinoni, Handel, Debussy, Nielsen. I'm looking forward to having a crack at the Jacob "Seven Bagatelles" and I bought a copy of Trygve Madsen's "De fire Riker" - just because I couldn't resist the name!!

I also want to have a peek at the Gregson sonata I mentioned earlier.

[Wai Kit Leung]

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

No, though Holliger (Swiss) has a thin, clear, or brilliant sound depending on your attitude.

I think we shouldn't compare Holliger to German players. Holliger is Swiss, as you said, and was trained in Bern (by a teacher graduated from the Paris Conservatory) and in the Paris Conservatory. No relation to German players whatsoever.

[Arundodonuts]

I've never heard of anyone accusing a German player of sounding "thin", though. Have you?

No, though Holliger (Swiss) has a thin, clear, or brilliant sound depending on your attitude.

I think we shouldn't compare Holliger to German players. Holliger is Swiss, as you said, and was trained in Bern (by a teacher graduated from the Paris Conservatory) and in the Paris Conservatory. No relation to German players whatsoever.

Yes I know, but he comes from Langenthal which is German speaking, so perhaps he should have a German accent. Only joking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Wai Kit Leung]

Yes I know, but he comes from Langenthal which is German speaking, so perhaps he should have a German accent. Only joking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

He does speak German and does have a German accent, but only in his speech, not in his oboe playing.
I haven't known of any prominent Swiss oboists who play in the German style.

[Fantasia in P major]

A lovely friend of mine went to her first lesson with George Caird years ago at the Royal Academy and he asked her to take out her best reed, he then asked her to take out her second best reed and told her to use that as she would rarely have the perfect reed at her disposal..also after her first lesson she was told to never bring a shop bought reed into a lesson ever again and she had to go away and start making them which she duly did has, not without some considerable practice made wonderful reeds ever since..

I was speaking to someone a while ago who had studied with Evelyn Barbirolli and she told the tale of going to Leon Goosens for lessons. He would have a go on her reeds and say "Oh you can't play on that one", take it off her and not give it back. He was, of course, saving the best ones for himself. She eventually started handing over her cast-offs and keeping tight lipped about the good ones.

So what music are we all working on at the moment..? do tell, it doesnt matter what standard it is, lets have a chin wag about that..always interesting to hear what people are playing and how they are getting along with it..

Well I've been "taking stock" following Grade 5, playing a few things from the syllabus I didn't look at before. Nothing terribly exciting. Also some technical work - articulation, vibrato, low notes using orchestral excerpts and Ferling (gulp).

I have a pile of Grade 6 music I'm sorting through. It starts to look like "proper" stuff at this stage. Albinoni, Handel, Debussy, Nielsen. I'm looking forward to having a crack at the Jacob "Seven Bagatelles" and I bought a copy of Trygve Madsen's "De fire Riker" - just because I couldn't resist the name!!

I also want to have a peek at the Gregson sonata I mentioned earlier.

Dear Pushpull,

Doesn't the front of the "De fire Riker" have such a great cover. Son really liked this piece! Howarths called him the "Norwegian James Galway" (Trygve Madsen not my son)!

Played the Albinoni 1st movent lots - anything fast gets his attention straight away. Just trying to get him to play the 2nd slow movement is a little more tricky.

Enjoy playing your new music!

[A.U.K]

Ah the Holliger question, so many people have debated his sound..Its not to everyones taste, but then again he has a formidable talent and a breathtaking technique..Does his sound remind me of a German player, no it reminds me of Holliger. Like every great performer he has his own signtaure, rather like a great singer he is instantly recognisable so I think trying to difine his sound as this or that is somewhat redundant..

Nice to see Wai kit Lueng posting on this thread..

Andrew

[Roseau]

But I suppose kerioboe's teacher would prove to me that I could have produced something better on my old brassy reed?

Well you probably could have produced something better at least momentarily but it probably would have required such an effort you wouldn't have been able to keep it up for long.

On the repertoire front:
I am still working on Clara Schumann's three romances and hoping that the pianist will have looked at her part to try it with piano next week. I have also this week been working on Bourgeois' Fantasy Pieces N°2 and 4 because my teacher said I should play staccato on my new oboe and not just legato. He has also just given me 12 duets for oboe and cor anglais by Mozart which I am supposed to be looking at for next week on the cor anglais with a view to playing some of them in an open day at the music school on June 5th.

[flobiano]

Well I've been "taking stock" following Grade 5, playing a few things from the syllabus I didn't look at before. Nothing terribly exciting. Also some technical work - articulation, vibrato, low notes using orchestral excerpts and Ferling (gulp).

I have a pile of Grade 6 music I'm sorting through. It starts to look like "proper" stuff at this stage. Albinoni, Handel, Debussy, Nielsen. I'm looking forward to having a crack at the Jacob "Seven Bagatelles" and I bought a copy of Trygve Madsen's "De fire Riker" - just because I couldn't resist the name!!

I also want to have a peek at the Gregson sonata I mentioned earlier.

Dear Pushpull,

Doesn't the front of the "De fire Riker" have such a great cover. Son really liked this piece! Howarths called him the "Norwegian James Galway" (Trygve Madsen not my son)!

Enjoy playing your new music!

I've just finished working through De Fire Riker....I really liked it, especially the way each movement built on the last and included themes from all the previous ones! Would love to hear someone like Nicholas Daniels do a recording of it! I'm toying with the idea of doing Krystall at the Staleybrige Adult Learners Concert.

I had a very successful orchestra rehearsal last night! We ran through most of the first half of our concert - The wand of youth suite no 2 by Elgar, Danse Macabre, Borodin Polvotsian Dance and also Pomp and Circumstance. I think I can get through them, playing most of it and not losing my place (which is the most important bit!). I think I've worked out how the oboe and Cor parts fit together in Borodin so I can come in at the right time. So hopefull it will all be fine!

I had my lesson today. I still get really nervous playing in front of my teacher, so all the scales that I've been playing perfectly well all wekk sounded as if I hadn't done any pratcice at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Still working on Italian Dance, Telemann Sonata in A minor and Poulenc. Also getting through the Ornamental Oboes study book which is quite fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[violoboist]

Just felt the need to share this...

I am due to have our first baby in 6 weeks and five days (counting?! Moi?!), and after texting my oboe teacher to say I'd seen her on the Young Musician WW finals, she signed off by saying;

''If you can play the oboe on a crappy reed, labour will be no problem!''

Oh, how I hope she is right!
xx

[Arundodonuts]

Ah the Holliger question, so many people have debated his sound..Its not to everyones taste, but then again he has a formidable talent and a breathtaking technique.

Writes out a hundred times:
I promise not to make jokes about Holliger
I promise not to make jokes about Holliger
I promise not to make jokes about Holliger
I promise not to make jokes about Holliger
I promise not to make jokes about Holliger
........

Yes I've seen him play and I do have several recordings (the Zelenka trio sonatas with Maurice Bourgue are very nice indeed). His own compositions are not too shabby either.

Doesn't the front of the "De fire Riker" have such a great cover. Son really liked this piece! Howarths called him the "Norwegian James Galway" (Trygve Madsen not my son)!

Enjoy playing your new music!

I've just finished working through De Fire Riker....I really liked it, especially the way each movement built on the last and included themes from all the previous ones!

Nice to hear the positve comments. I was taking a look through it on the train this morning (er, sans oboe of course) and I'm looking forward to it.

''If you can play the oboe on a crappy reed, labour will be no problem!''

I'm filing this comment away for the next General Election.