Junior Department Practice Times Options

[Claudia's Mum]

We've just received the JD practice timetable. It ranges from 45 minutes a day for an 8yo brass player to 2 hours per day for an 11yo string player.

I have to say I am a bit taken aback.

Do young children at JD really practice this much? Is it per instrument? Does it include time spent playing the instrument in other activities eg. orchestra or is this just for practice at home? Claudia has never done more than an hour, ever.

I am wondering how we are going to fit 2 hours per day in with all the homework, after school clubs, friends etc. especially as we can't make noise in the mornings or late evening as we live in a flat.

Do they give you enough material to fill the 2 hours or do you have to go over and over the same stuff?

And does this mean you accelerate the grade exams as well?

As the practice time increases from 12y plus, does this affect schoolwork and subject choices at GCSE?

[ChrisC]

We've just received the JD practice timetable. It ranges from 45 minutes a day for an 8yo brass player to 2 hours per day for an 11yo string player.

I have to say I am a bit taken aback.

Do young children at JD really practice this much? Is it per instrument? Does it include time spent playing the instrument in other activities eg. orchestra or is this just for practice at home? Claudia has never done more than an hour, ever.

I am wondering how we are going to fit 2 hours per day in with all the homework, after school clubs, friends etc. especially as we can't make noise in the mornings or late evening as we live in a flat.

Do they give you enough material to fill the 2 hours or do you have to go over and over the same stuff?

And does this mean you accelerate the grade exams as well?

As the practice time increases from 12y plus, does this affect schoolwork and subject choices at GCSE?

I think they should probably be taken as guidelines only, what matters is the end result and presumably the JD will make it clear if they think more work is needed. Also, I don't think JRNCM specify such things at all, they just reaudition everyone each year.

Chris

[notmusimum]

JRNCM reaudition and have tests on scales and sight reading around February time.

I think Claudia should do as much as her time allows. Some people won't play much outside of JD and will have lots of time to practice. Others who are active musicians will be playing in ensembles and doing lots of musical things.

There is only os much time in the day and school work has ot be important. I know some schools give free periods essentially so the children can do homework wihtout practice time being effected. Others "let them off" homework. We don't have either of these luxuries and I'm not sure whether I'd particularly want the latter. The former might be something to request once Emsoboe has done two of her GCSE's in November but I'm not sure how it would work with a full timetable.

[SueHM]

We've just received the JD practice timetable. It ranges from 45 minutes a day for an 8yo brass player to 2 hours per day for an 11yo string player.

I have to say I am a bit taken aback.

Why? What were you expecting? You send your child to a conservatoire junior department - surely a significant amount of time and effort is to be expected, otherwise why are you bothering?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

[a mum]

We've just received the JD practice timetable. It ranges from 45 minutes a day for an 8yo brass player to 2 hours per day for an 11yo string player.

I have to say I am a bit taken aback.

Why? What were you expecting? You send your child to a conservatoire junior department - surely a significant amount of time and effort is to be expected, otherwise why are you bothering?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

Does it say anything more? Are these meant as general guidelines or specifically targeted to individual child?

I suspect that it will depend on the child's level and teacher's expectations. Although it might not be possible to fit in 2 hours every day, I have to say that it is reasonable for an intermediate-advanced level string player. But, as I say, it will surely depend on how quickly the child learns, how efficient the practise sessions are, and if the teacher thinks that expected progress is being made between every lesson.

Edit: Just re-read the original post, and just quickly wanted to add that surely sacrifices would have to made where friends and other after-school activities are concerned. We found that this was the case and slowly her other activities had to be thinned down to make way for music practise, especially in the last year or so. And, she hardly saw her friends during the week. But, this is something that she chose to do. Also, could your daughter fit some practise during lunchtime at school?

[Organistin]

Does it say anything more? Are these meant as general guidelines or specifically targeted to individual child?

I suspect that it will depend on the child's level and teacher's expectations. Although it might not be possible to fit in 2 hours every day, I have to say that it is reasonable for an intermediate-advanced level string player. But, as I say, it will surely depend on how quickly the child learns, how efficient the practise sessions are, and if the teacher thinks that expected progress is being made between every lesson.

Edit: Just re-read the original post, and just quickly wanted to add that surely sacrifices would have to made where friends and other after-school activities are concerned. We found that this was the case and slowly her other activities had to be thinned down to make way for music practise, especially in the last year or so. And, she hardly saw her friends during the week. But, this is something that she chose to do. Also, could your daughter fit some practise during lunchtime at school?

I too think that 2 hours a day for an 11 year old at the junior conservatoire is reasonable. Claudia may not have been doing 2 hours a day up to now but other children will have and will continue to do so, increasing the amount of practise time as time goes on. This means that if she is doing half as much practice as other students they will make faster progress and she will eventually be left behind in terms of technique and stamina. Nothing can replace hours of practice and raw talent only gets you so far.
It is a difficult choice to be made - if Claudia wants to pursue a career in music then sacrifices will have to be made in order to fit in the required practice. On the other hand, perhaps she wants her music for fun while pursuing a different career - in which case she cannot afford to sacrifice too much time on her other studies for violin practice.

[notmusimum]

I think the question is not one about sacrifice but whether school work should be put on one side for instrumental practice. I think this is a different question to seeing friends, doing other activities.

Emsoboe really only does Music, she doesn't see her friends at all during the week, except the ones in ensembles with her.

I agree that choosing JD means huge amounts of practice in order to continue progressing. The more the better! I'm not so sure this should be at the expense of school work. I also believe playing in ensembles is very important for musical development. There are different skills to be learnt from doing this.

I'm sure Claudia will find a routine once she starts her training.

[Claudia's Mum]

We've just received the JD practice timetable. It ranges from 45 minutes a day for an 8yo brass player to 2 hours per day for an 11yo string player.

I have to say I am a bit taken aback.

Why? What were you expecting? You send your child to a conservatoire junior department - surely a significant amount of time and effort is to be expected, otherwise why are you bothering?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

To be honest we didn't know what to expect. We have no prior experience of music and are sending her because we were advised to by her teachers. We will do what is required but just wondering what the experience is of others.

[organ_dummy]

I agree with SueHM, a mum, and Organistin.

Enroling in the JD would require some sacrifices, e.g. less time to hang out with friends, less time to keep up with other hobbies, etc. But this would be worthwhile if the child wants to be really good on his/her instrument.

If the child manages his/her time well (with parental support), it shouldn't be too difficult to balance school work and JD.

[Claudia's Mum]

Thanks for all the replies. I can see we need to take the music a bit more seriously from now on. What an education all this is!

[violinmum]

Thanks for all the replies. I can see we need to take the music a bit more seriously from now on. What an education all this is!

Hi Claudia's Mum,

My son is going to the junior department at RAM in September - he is a 12 yr old violinist. We have not been sent any info on practice yet but I am not surprised by the 2 hour requirement. The headteacher at my son's school did his degree and teaching qualification at RAM and gave my son some really good advice when he heard that he was going there. He said that he would have to do that amount at least on his first instrument and a bit less on his second (piano).

Finding time for practice can be difficult once you are at secondary school when there is loads of home work etc so the headteacher suggested breaking the practice down into more manageable chunks of half hour sessions. So he can do some before school some at lunchtime - but not for the whole of lunchtime, then a bit more after school and homework. He was sort of doing this anyway but not with any coherence and still feeling that each practice session should be at least an hour - which is almost impossible before school if he wants to get any sleep at all...

The school has committed to arranging practice space for my son either early morning, lunchtime. or after school. They don't have particularly good facilities at his school - it is an inner London Comp that has just lost its Building Schools for the Future funding which was going to finance a dedicated music suite but nevertherless they really want to help.

My son felt very inspired by doing shorter chunks of practice and has decided to dedicated each practice to something different - ie scales, studies, orchestral and solo pieces. The only person who thought it was a bad idea was his current piano teacher who said that he would not build up his stamina - which is a good point but I am hoping that as he gets older and doesn't need such earlier bedtimes he will be able to do a longer practice after school. And added on the amount of time he spends playing in orchestras, ensembles etc surely it all helps with stamina??

Good luck to you and Claudia

[Claudia's Mum]

Thanks for all the replies. I can see we need to take the music a bit more seriously from now on. What an education all this is!

Hi Claudia's Mum,

My son is going to the junior department at RAM in September - he is a 12 yr old violinist. We have not been sent any info on practice yet but I am not surprised by the 2 hour requirement. The headteacher at my son's school did his degree and teaching qualification at RAM and gave my son some really good advice when he heard that he was going there. He said that he would have to do that amount at least on his first instrument and a bit less on his second (piano).

Finding time for practice can be difficult once you are at secondary school when there is loads of home work etc so the headteacher suggested breaking the practice down into more manageable chunks of half hour sessions. So he can do some before school some at lunchtime - but not for the whole of lunchtime, then a bit more after school and homework. He was sort of doing this anyway but not with any coherence and still feeling that each practice session should be at least an hour - which is almost impossible before school if he wants to get any sleep at all...

The school has committed to arranging practice space for my son either early morning, lunchtime. or after school. They don't have particularly good facilities at his school - it is an inner London Comp that has just lost its Building Schools for the Future funding which was going to finance a dedicated music suite but nevertherless they really want to help.

My son felt very inspired by doing shorter chunks of practice and has decided to dedicated each practice to something different - ie scales, studies, orchestral and solo pieces. The only person who thought it was a bad idea was his current piano teacher who said that he would not build up his stamina - which is a good point but I am hoping that as he gets older and doesn't need such earlier bedtimes he will be able to do a longer practice after school. And added on the amount of time he spends playing in orchestras, ensembles etc surely it all helps with stamina??

Good luck to you and Claudia

Thanks Violinmum. I think the guidelines said it rises to 3 hours per day from 12 years onwards. Dividing it into specific chunks is a good idea. We are practising squeezing some extra violin practice in where possible and have found a room at work where she is practising while I work when I have to take her to work with me (instead of playing computer games!)

I also saw from another thread with a link to Itzak Perlman talking about practice times that no-one should practise for more then 5 hours a day otherwise it becomes counterproductive.

[Listener]

Sounds like she has a positive approach to the demands, which bodes well. The ethos in these places is all about working hard, and students either decide it isn't for them, or go for it. So once she's there you may find you have the opposite problem to the one you started the thread with: trying to limit her practice to make sure it doesn't squeeze out everything else.

Life becomes a compromise sooner than it does for young people who do less. Mad Tom said somewhere else that you can do anything you want but you can't do everything you want. To do as much as she can of what she wants, she needs to be efficient - prioritise, get straight down to things, get homework done in the time it's supposed to take, and be selective about her leisure activities. Be aware of where time is going. I'm tempted to say give away those games but if they provide her with time-out that's great - never stopping has its own dangers.

Some things will take longer - e.g. took my daughter more than a year to get her driving license for which she got ribbed endlessly - and they may slip a grade here and there in exams, but it's all a question of balance. As a wise teacher said, you keep an eye on them and sometimes put up a hand to keep them on the wire. Occasionally they fall off and everything falls apart. Then you give them a hug, mop the tears and help them put it all back together.

We found closing ours eyes (literally sometimes, accompanied by snoring) to the amount of sleep our daughter was NOT getting was important. That said, we encouraged an early night (relatively speaking) on Friday; didn't always happen but she's fortunate in functioning on little sleep. And do as much for them as you can manage/they allow. I discouraged either of my girls from helping around the house - they've got the rest of their lives to keep their living space livable in. I feared I was raising monsters, but they willingly pitch in now so perhaps it was accidentally a good strategy.

[Organistin]

Sounds like she has a positive approach to the demands, which bodes well. The ethos in these places is all about working hard, and students either decide it isn't for them, or go for it. So once she's there you may find you have the opposite problem to the one you started the thread with: trying to limit her practice to make sure it doesn't squeeze out everything else.

I think if Claudia builds up her practice time gradually from 1 hour to the required 2 hours over the next couple of months that would be the best way, rather than suddenly doubling what she already does. You will see over the next couple of years whether music is going to be the thing for her.
I was not at a junior department but I was in the National Children's Orchestra from 10 to 13 and during that time I realized that music was not going to be my career (went for chemistry instead - but have since dumped that - a whole other story!!) While my practice time stayed the same during those years, other people were increasing their practice. At 10 I was in the training orchestra of NCO and was the leader but a couple of years later nearly all of the people who were not as good as me at 10 had overtaken me probably because most of them were practising 2 -3 hours a day and I was doing about 45 minutes at most.
I think Claudia will decide herself in the next two or three years if she is going for music as a career or not but as long as it remains an option that she may want to pursue later, she needs to keep pace with others in terms of practice (proper practice, not just playing in order to get to the required number of minutes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) Music is unfortunately very competitive and one of the things that we found when I was growing up was that children from musical families had an advantage because they knew exactly what was required to get ahead. My parents and I had no idea at all!
So if you have any more queries, ask her teacher, ask advice at the JD, post on here etc. Ask, ask, ask.

And do as much for them as you can manage/they allow. I discouraged either of my girls from helping around the house - they've got the rest of their lives to keep their living space livable in. I feared I was raising monsters, but they willingly pitch in now so perhaps it was accidentally a good strategy.

My parents did not expect me to do chores around the house either. My mother said that if I was doing school work and music that was my job. She did say, however, that if I was not doing these then I would be expected to do housework. This worked well - I didn't do anything much during term time but I voluntarily did things during holidays (gardening, painting etc etc) when I had more time and later on when I was doing less music I worked in the family business between the ages of 16 and 18.