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> "it Isn't Necessary To Touch Children In Order To Demonstrate
Henry Fagg
post Nov 5 2010, 04:01 PM
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Keeping Children Safe in Music is a joint initiative between the MU, the NSPCC, Youth Music, and the ABRSM.

The MU now has 5 videos up on their Youtube site to help music teachers to 'gain a better understanding of their child protection responsibilities and avoid situations that could lead to accusations of misconduct'.

Of course the aims are laudable, but I'm not convinced by these videos.

In particular, the third video entitled 'Inappropriate Demonstration' depicts a grossly caricatured version of teacher-pupil contact, and contains the statement "It isn't necessary to touch children in order to demonstrate. There's always a better way" (01:16).

Personally, I do not believe this is correct, and it reminds me of the issues that Jennie Bristow and Frank Furedi were so helpful in unpacking in their book Licensed to Hug (now in its second edition).

As an Alexander Technique teacher, I know that verbal instruction and demonstration is not enough to change habit patterns (we have a term for it: 'unreliable sensory appreciation'). In my profession, 'not touching' is simply not an option, and I'm sure that many music teachers feel the same.

What does anyone else think about these videos (www.youtube.com/user/TheMusiciansUnion) and the above statement in particular??
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Dugazon
post Nov 19 2010, 12:55 PM
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Moving away a bit from the child-specific problems:

One main pillar of a good student-teacher relationship is trust - and trust works both ways.

It should go without saying that a good teacher will be sensitive enough to treat their students as individuals - that's why I earlier said that "to touch or not to touch" has not really anything to do with the fact whether we teach children or adults, but with the fact that different people have different boundaries.

Having said that: I trust my students to tell me if they feel uncomfortable about something, and I also trust them not to say Yes when they mean No. I encourage them consistenly to be honest about their feelings - they don't need to say things to be polite. Most of my students can do this, some easier than others, and some needed a bit of help with it, but I am quite happy to say that things like this also build confidence.

Whilst I trust my students to tell me if they are uncomfortable with something, and they can trust me in return to be able to read them to a certain extent, I think we have to keep one thing in our minds though:

We act in the student's best interest. So if there is not a basic amount of trust that we only ever use touch with an educational purpose, it's very hard to establish a good working relationship. And this doesn't only apply to touch, but to a whole array of "sensitivities" that one has sometimes simply to be prepared to let go to achieve results.

I'll give you one example - maybe singing is a bit different from certain instruments, but addressing certain muscular issues some people might find embarrassing is very often necessary:
Some students are so tense that they need to lie down first to get in touch with their natural breathing again. Oh the horror of lying on a couch or on the floor! Oh the embarrassment! You have to be able to switch your brains off occasionally as a singer, and that's the place to start.

Another one: Some people are literally clenching their buttocks, and if they don't release their pelvic floor, they will usually constrict on throat-level as well. You might find this odd, but all sphincter muscles of the body are more or less connected, and if you release one, you usually release the others. The same applies the other way round. Simple fight or flight response.

So, if I cannot address this as a teacher, and a student gets into hysterical fits if I just mention the words "pelvic floor", and consequently refuses to do exercises that will help (it goes without saying that there is no need for hands-on manipulation here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), then they are not willing to keep their part of the bargain. It's sabotaging what the teacher is trying to suggest in their best interest. It's not weird, it doesn't have sexual undertones - it's simple anatomy. And it is sometimes necessary to get over yourself and just do. If people cannot do this, that's fine, and I would never force anyone, but then singing might not be the right thing for them.

If a student is not willing to trust the teacher, then no successful work is possible. I know that trust doesn't build over night, and it is easily destroyed by careless actions, but it always takes two to tango.
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Arundodonuts
post Nov 20 2010, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE(Dugazon @ Nov 19 2010, 12:55 PM) *

but it always takes two to tango.

Nice comparison. I defy anyone to teach someone to tango without touching them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Posts in this topic
Henry Fagg   "it Isn't Necessary To Touch Children In Order To Demonstrate   Nov 5 2010, 04:01 PM
jod   I teach singing and piano (in the main) and use a...   Nov 5 2010, 04:47 PM
Yet another muso   I teach singing and piano (in the main) and use ...   Nov 5 2010, 09:23 PM
Seer_Green   I don't think I'd want to go down the rou...   Nov 5 2010, 10:04 PM
miffy   I hate all this! :( I don't manhandle my...   Nov 5 2010, 05:03 PM
flutey1   I hate all this! :( I don't manhandle m...   Nov 16 2010, 03:28 PM
Seer_Green   What is most important in all this is common sense...   Nov 5 2010, 07:00 PM
Banjogirl   It's all madness. I can't help touching ch...   Nov 5 2010, 09:10 PM
neil.clarinet   Interesting all videos are 2 mins 17 secs and cut ...   Nov 5 2010, 10:25 PM
dolce@piano   I touch my piano pupils all the time because I thi...   Nov 6 2010, 08:24 AM
Clari Nicki1   I touch my piano pupils all the time because I th...   Nov 6 2010, 08:53 AM
ChristopherO   Child protection is of vital importance but I can...   Nov 6 2010, 11:44 AM
ChristopherO   I am not a teacher so I don't have to consider...   Nov 6 2010, 08:44 AM
BadStrad   But for my half pennyworth I am so disturbed by ...   Nov 6 2010, 11:39 AM
Henry Fagg   [quote name='ChristopherO' post='1003141' date='N...   Nov 8 2010, 12:47 PM
Aquarelle   Warning: I rant!!!! I have expres...   Nov 8 2010, 01:39 PM
Mad Tom   Warning: I rant!!!! I have expre...   Nov 8 2010, 03:30 PM
artstar   One of my piano students is very young, and I...   Nov 9 2010, 10:58 AM
ExpressYourself   Good point Aquarelle, dogs need protecting too...   Nov 8 2010, 01:42 PM
chocolatedog   I think it's gone all silly - what happens if ...   Nov 8 2010, 03:17 PM
Misterioso   I think it's gone all silly - what happens if...   Nov 16 2010, 10:57 AM
porilo   I am a piano teacher and will occasionally touch p...   Nov 8 2010, 09:28 PM
ChristopherO   I have a confession. I hugged a child last week. I...   Nov 9 2010, 02:10 PM
Seer_Green   Part of the problem with all this (and it's no...   Nov 9 2010, 03:06 PM
Clari Nicki1   Part of the problem with all this (and it's n...   Nov 9 2010, 04:35 PM
Seer_Green   Just seen this: http://www.abrsm.org/?page=newsArt...   Nov 9 2010, 05:17 PM
Aquarelle   Just looked at the videos and found them silly an...   Nov 10 2010, 09:36 PM
baiba   Just looked at the videos and found them silly a...   Nov 11 2010, 09:41 AM
lilly763   I'm not in Britain, but in the US the attitude...   Nov 11 2010, 02:00 PM
Banjogirl   A company called 'Educare' tells you an aw...   Nov 11 2010, 02:23 PM
Henry Fagg   [color=#000099]"When you're teaching inst...   Nov 11 2010, 06:58 PM
pushpull   It isn't necessary to touch children in order...   Nov 11 2010, 07:08 PM
Seer_Green   Were any instrumental teachers even consulted dur...   Nov 11 2010, 08:21 PM
baiba   Were any instrumental teachers even consulted du...   Nov 11 2010, 11:50 PM
baiba   Also - if the authorities don't like the idea ...   Nov 11 2010, 09:15 PM
pushpull   Obviously adult students are able to comprehend v...   Nov 12 2010, 02:30 PM
morceau   Just looked at the videos and found them silly a...   Nov 12 2010, 02:15 PM
Organistin   :agree: I've just watched the videos and to...   Nov 12 2010, 03:17 PM
TeacherNumberOne   :agree: I've just watched the videos and t...   Nov 12 2010, 04:13 PM
Mad Tom   What does anyone else think about these videos (w...   Nov 12 2010, 04:38 PM
Seer_Green   I suppose that at the heart of the matter, how man...   Nov 14 2010, 09:47 AM
twinkle   A very good point made about appropriate and inapp...   Nov 17 2010, 08:18 AM
Seer_Green   I'm going to start a new thread for people to...   Nov 17 2010, 09:53 AM
Henry Fagg   [quote name='twinkle' post='1006167' date='Nov 17...   Jan 2 2011, 06:50 PM
ma non troppo   I just want to say that I agree with many of the ...   Nov 16 2010, 12:16 AM
maggiemay   oh dear - now I've got to read the whole of th...   Nov 17 2010, 09:43 AM
Dugazon   I'll just say one thing, and I personally don...   Nov 17 2010, 12:24 PM
Seer_Green   I completely agree with everything you say, but I ...   Nov 18 2010, 10:42 AM
Mad Tom   I completely agree with everything you say, but I...   Nov 18 2010, 10:57 AM
Aquarelle   I completely agree with everything you say, but I...   Nov 18 2010, 12:20 PM
Seer_Green   Sorry Seer Green!! I expect you will com...   Nov 18 2010, 12:31 PM
Aquarelle   What would be the point in that? [/quote][/quote]...   Nov 18 2010, 09:25 PM
SueHM   I've watched the videos now, and while I can s...   Nov 18 2010, 12:41 PM
maggiemay   Personally, I don't make an issue of touching...   Nov 18 2010, 12:49 PM
Czerny   I'm afraid I haven't read through the enti...   Nov 18 2010, 11:16 PM
Seer_Green   A reluctance to be touched by one's teacher d...   Nov 18 2010, 11:25 PM
Dulciana   I'm afraid I haven't read through the ent...   Nov 19 2010, 12:08 AM
kerioboe   There is another argument for avoiding touching p...   Nov 19 2010, 07:38 AM
Maizie   I think the point you make here is a good one but ...   Nov 19 2010, 08:50 AM
Czerny   I think the point you make here is a good one but...   Nov 19 2010, 10:14 AM
kerioboe   I'm a bit puzzled that you say this (i.e. you...   Nov 19 2010, 10:26 AM
Czerny   I'm a bit puzzled that you say this (i.e. yo...   Nov 19 2010, 10:52 AM
Seer_Green   I think the point you make here is a good one but...   Nov 19 2010, 10:22 AM
pushpull   My oboe teacher touches me quite a lot and on occ...   Nov 19 2010, 10:46 AM
Dugazon   Moving away a bit from the child-specific problems...   Nov 19 2010, 12:55 PM
pushpull   but it always takes two to tango. Nice compariso...   Nov 20 2010, 03:04 PM
rosflute   I got an apology from 'Educare' the body w...   Nov 20 2010, 09:22 AM
Aquarelle   None the less it is very cultural. Yesterday we ...   Nov 21 2010, 03:02 PM
Dulciana   I agreed with the sentiment in Czerny's first ...   Nov 22 2010, 10:18 AM
Henry Fagg   Josie Appleton of the Manifesto Club is now spread...   Nov 23 2010, 06:42 PM
baiba   It looks as if the majority of professional music ...   Nov 26 2010, 06:55 AM
pushpull   It looks as if the majority of professional music...   Nov 26 2010, 09:39 AM
maggiemay   This is not quite the right thread for this - it p...   Nov 26 2010, 08:58 AM
mel2   This is not quite the right thread for this - it ...   Nov 26 2010, 09:15 AM
Dulciana   [quote name='maggiemay' post='1007966' date='Nov ...   Nov 26 2010, 10:42 AM
Jane S   I think I can feel a change in my T&Cs. It is...   Jan 2 2011, 07:05 PM
Fran*Piano   Ho hum, I'll go back to the old fashioned me...   Jan 2 2011, 07:39 PM
Seer_Green   I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's ...   Jan 2 2011, 07:19 PM
Czerny   I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's...   Jan 2 2011, 07:44 PM
vectistim   I hadn't thought about piano duets - it's...   Jan 2 2011, 09:32 PM
baiba   I hadn't thought about piano duets - it...   Jan 3 2011, 10:54 AM
Jane S   :P Don't take my post too seriously :blink: ...   Jan 2 2011, 08:27 PM
Martin.Walters   What an awkward situation our culture has put us i...   Jan 2 2011, 09:05 PM
ffliwt   Most ridiculous thing ever! This makes me so a...   Jan 2 2011, 11:22 PM
Jane S   I always agree to parents being present if they so...   Jan 3 2011, 09:15 AM
Henry Fagg   If you're a music teacher posting on this foru...   Jan 7 2011, 05:39 PM
Henry Fagg   Here's a pdf of the letter from Michael Gove, ...   Jan 7 2011, 05:54 PM
jm-hamilton   I hear on the 6 o'clock news that the Musician...   Jan 7 2011, 06:36 PM
Fran*Piano   I hear on the 6 o'clock news that the Musicia...   Jan 7 2011, 11:23 PM
Jane S   Well, I'm gobsmacked! Only today I had a ...   Jan 7 2011, 06:50 PM
Organistin   My first lesson in using a pedal involved my 70 ...   Jan 8 2011, 05:28 AM
oldromola   Mostly the parents of the children I teach are in ...   Jan 7 2011, 09:56 PM
Seer_Green   Mostly the parents of the children I teach are in...   Jan 7 2011, 11:15 PM
Jane S   Glad to hear old techniques work! :D I...   Jan 8 2011, 09:29 AM
Seer_Green   On Ceefax last night, the BBC quoted the MU as say...   Jan 8 2011, 12:43 PM
pushpull   On Ceefax last night, the BBC quoted the MU as sa...   Jan 8 2011, 02:20 PM
Henry Fagg   Not only that, but from a teaching point of view, ...   Jan 8 2011, 01:41 PM
JudithJ   Diane Widdison (Musicians Union) "We feel tha...   Jan 8 2011, 01:48 PM
Seer_Green   I am glad that I no longer belong to the MU, and s...   Jan 8 2011, 01:43 PM
ffliwt   I don't understand where all the hype with mus...   Jan 8 2011, 01:48 PM
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