First Full Double Horn Options

[JamesK]

Hello,

I am coming up to the time where I will be off to university in a a few months and I want to buy a full double before then to make use of AIPS (Assisted Instrument Pricing Scheme). As a student, the amount of money I will be spending is ~?1500 (exc VAT). My current instrument to get me to grade 4 is a Paxman Studenti Compensating rented from my local music centre. Do you think I should spend a bit more now to avoid spending more in the future, spending less now and getting a professional horn when I get a job or buy a very good second hand (hornsaplenty)?

I've had a look at some horns already: (price excluding VAT at 20% from RRP [i know you can get them cheaper])

Jupiter 852 @ ?1800
Paxman academy @ ?1300
John packer Rath JP261 @ ?1500
J michael FH850 @ ?400

I am heading up to Paxman music shop next week and checking out my local music shops too.

Thanks

[corenfa]

Hello,

I am coming up to the time where I will be off to university in a a few months and I want to buy a full double before then to make use of AIPS (Assisted Instrument Pricing Scheme). As a student, the amount of money I will be spending is ~?1500 (exc VAT). My current instrument to get me to grade 4 is a Paxman Studenti Compensating rented from my local music centre. Do you think I should spend a bit more now to avoid spending more in the future, spending less now and getting a professional horn when I get a job or buy a very good second hand (hornsaplenty)?

I've had a look at some horns already: (price excluding VAT at 20% from RRP [i know you can get them cheaper])

Jupiter 852 @ ?1800
Paxman academy @ ?1300
John packer Rath JP261 @ ?1500
J michael FH850 @ ?400

I am heading up to Paxman music shop next week and checking out my local music shops too.

Thanks

I used to be a horn player (studied it in college, though I no longer play) and had to upgrade halfway through the course because my first-year horn (a Holton 190) just wasn't cutting it- it was "splitting" on loud notes. I got the best secondhand horn I could afford, which was a nickel silver Alexander that was about 30 years old. I couldn't have afforded a brand new instrument at that time. (This was more than 10 years ago so no point giving prices)

I found that I just couldn't learn the stuff I needed to learn on the Holton, because it just wasn't responding well. I couldn't practice loud notes because the tone just got brassy and horrible beyond a certain volume level - and my teacher tried and confirmed that it wasn't just my playing. At that time I was at about Grade 6 or 7 (this was in the US so nobody did graded exams)

[Benjy]

Well I managed to get through grade 8 with distinction and beyond on a grotty eastern European ancient compensating horn tied together with string (couldn't afford anything better at the time). I waited a few years until I could afford to choose a decent new horn. If you feel the need to upgrade promptly to take advantage of the financial support, I would probably go for a refurbished secondhand Paxman or Alex if I were in your position - it would do you for many years if you look after it.

Jon

[kenm]

I would probably go for a refurbished secondhand Paxman or Alex if I were in your position - it would do you for many years if you look after it.

Very good suggestion. An old quality horn, if looked after well, can have the same life remaining in it as a new student one, and meanwhile plays better. Ideally, though, you will have expert guidance in making your choice. A possible problem is valves that leak because of excessive wear. You can check this by removing the tuning slides, not too fast, while the corresponding valves are closed (this is the Bb side of the thumb valve) and listening for a satisfactorily loud "pop", which will only happen if air has not already arrived via leaky valves. Other possibilities are ties that have come unsoldered and are still loose, or have been badly resoldered, so that the horn is twisted.

[JamesK]

Thanks for all your suggestions.
Are there any tips on horn shopping: other factors to tell if a horn is bad - or is it natural instinct and experience?

[corenfa]

Thanks for all your suggestions.
Are there any tips on horn shopping: other factors to tell if a horn is bad - or is it natural instinct and experience?

When I was thinking of buying mine, i had it "on loan" from the shop for a week. Within that week, I tried out a lot of different repertoire including some of the stuff that I had been feeling frustrated with on the old horn. My teacher also had a go on it. She said that it would not have been her first choice because she found it very resistant and she was used to a freer-blowing instrument. She also said that if I felt that I could play it and get a good sound out of it, then that was more important and it didn't matter whether she could play it or not. She said that I sounded better on it than the old horn.

I was happy with that horn until I stopped playing (after I moved here) - i certainly didn't stop because of the instrument.

[JamesK]

Update:
I went to Paxman's yesterday. Amazing place. Very helpful. I had a go on various horns, those that are way outside my price range:
Alex 103: I found it strange to hold and I didn't like the sound (hard to explain)
Pxaman 20M: Quite difficult to get a good sound on it.

And within my price range-ish
Holton 378: I felt it was too cramped to hold. The levers were too close to the leadpipe.
Paxman Academy: Good horn, felt much like my curent compensating and notes were fairly easy to play with nice tone
Paxman Series 4: Although harder than the Academy, I can still get an OK tone out of it. As I get more experience, I think it will come. Also, I think I could use this horn long enough not to need another one (unless I become professional??)
Yamaha 567: Nice horn, no faults. Similar in comparison to the Series 4.

Not too sure about the prices though. And I will try some more out in coming weeks

[corenfa]

Update:
I went to Paxman's yesterday. Amazing place. Very helpful. I had a go on various horns, those that are way outside my price range:
Alex 103: I found it strange to hold and I didn't like the sound (hard to explain)
...

I know exactly what you mean about it being strange to hold! That's the model of Alexander I have.

[morton]

Update:
I went to Paxman's yesterday. Amazing place. Very helpful. I had a go on various horns, those that are way outside my price range:
Alex 103: I found it strange to hold and I didn't like the sound (hard to explain)
...

I know exactly what you mean about it being strange to hold! That's the model of Alexander I have.

I have an Alex 103 and mine is brilliant. However they vary a lot. Choose the one you like the most. I hope you have a lot of fun playing it.

[Aero]

Update:
I went to Paxman's yesterday. Amazing place. Very helpful. I had a go on various horns, those that are way outside my price range:
Alex 103: I found it strange to hold and I didn't like the sound (hard to explain)
...

I know exactly what you mean about it being strange to hold! That's the model of Alexander I have.

I have an Alex 103 and mine is brilliant. However they vary a lot. Choose the one you like the most. I hope you have a lot of fun playing it.

Alex 103 is a very top heavy horn with the 4th valve above the rest. As with everything it's just a case of getting used to it. As said, they can be very variable though. Get a good one and you are set, but there are poor ones about.

Don't dismiss the Holton 378 - the valve levers can be altered, and a leather handgrip can pad things out so a larger hand fits. I played a 378 recently in Paxmans which was very playable indeed and pretty much as good as a 178 (one of Holton's pro models).

The Academy is an excellent student horn too.