Poll - shoulder rest or no shoulder rest? Options

[viola-mad]

Besides, if I didn't have a shoulder rest in my case I'd have to find some other means of keeping my pencils from rattling round inside.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

My case is not that roomy. I have to wedge the shoulder rest right up against one side of it which creates a nice snug spot for my pencil. The pocket at the end is only big enough for my rosin, practice mute and a few pegs.

[jojo]

Besides, if I didn't have a shoulder rest in my case I'd have to find some other means of keeping my pencils from rattling round inside.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

My case is not that roomy. I have to wedge the shoulder rest right up against one side of it which creates a nice snug spot for my pencil. The pocket at the end is only big enough for my rosin, practice mute and a few pegs.

LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) sorry, when I first read your post I missed the word 'case' and I wondered where were those pencils rattling!!! for a minute I thought they were in your upper body (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

actually, re-reading the post I did not miss the word 'case' I did read it, I just thought you were saying 'in my case' like meaning in your circumstances (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[tetrachord]

Besides, if I didn't have a shoulder rest in my case I'd have to find some other means of keeping my pencils from rattling round inside.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

My case is not that roomy. I have to wedge the shoulder rest right up against one side of it which creates a nice snug spot for my pencil. The pocket at the end is only big enough for my rosin, practice mute and a few pegs.

LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) sorry, when I first read your post I missed the word 'case' and I wondered where were those pencils rattling!!! for a minute I thought they were in your upper body (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

actually, re-reading the post I did not miss the word 'case' I did read it, I just thought you were saying 'in my case' like meaning in your circumstances (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I thought the pencils were inside the viola...

[viola-mad]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) I'm going to run away shortly!!

[Misterioso]

I thought the pencils were inside the viola...

It could make for some interesting effects!

An Alexander Teacher once tried to get me playing without a shoulder rest, but the violin felt really insecure. I'm happy to say that I won. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jojo]

An Alexander Teacher once tried to get me playing without a shoulder rest, but the violin felt really insecure. I'm happy to say that I won. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I just wanted to say:

the instrument feeling insecure is a totally normal thing when you first start out and it takes time for that to 'go away'. It will take different people different length of times to adapt to play without a rest but eventually when you do adapt you will actually feel your instrument to be quite secure and you will even forget you don't have a shoulder rest anymore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
that's what's happened to me! it's only ten days I have started to play with no rest and I now actually forget I haven't got a shoulder rest anymore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I even forget it's my left hand holding the violin up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I think it's hilarious when in the past I tried and I felt the violin was so unstable and insecure I straight away got my shoulder rest back on and breathed a big sigh of relief !!! (only to then go back to my nagging problems and then wanting/wishing to be rest-free again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) )

Now, I am not saying this to convince Misterioso to go rest-free ok? absolutely NOT, I will never dare to push anyone one way or another, Misterioso is happy and that's the way we like things, happy violinists/violists is what we want, I just wanted to say that it is normal for the violin to feel insecure and be rather unstable when one first tries and I am saying this for those people who DO want to go rest free so that they don't get discouraged like I did in the past, that's all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) I'm going to run away shortly!!

I'll listen out for those pencils rattling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Devil_Fiddler]

I've been doing some thinking about this recently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
this video is quite interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk8W5gFffA...der&list=UL
I watched it and then tried to play without my shoulder rest and I liked it...ish
I felt I had more freedom to move around the violin without it, but I must have been gripping with my neck or something because the next day I woke up and my shoulder was really clicky and just felt dead, pretty much!
I also noticed that without the shoulder rest I was holding the violin differently, with my chin more towards the tailpiece.

Just watched that video and some others from that user, they're interesting, but I was quite interested by the shoulder rest paint experiment - do other people find the same as this girl, in that not all of the shoulder rest is used?
I've just been doing a similar experiment of my own which has been pretty interesting... first of all, all of the surface of my shoulder rest is against my shoulder/chest and slightly more heavily resting at the lower end, but with not much difference of pressure across the width, if that makes sense?
I also looked at where my shoulder rest was during different times in my practice session and I think I might have finally cracked the issue I've been having with tension in my left shoulder - As I play, I tend to naturally slouch/relax a little and looking at it, as this happens the top end of my s/r moves down and along so that the end is resting on my shoulder rather than the end of my collar bone, so I'm tensing my shoulder in order to try and support my violin. I'm not exactly sure what the solution to this is, other than not to slouch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) , but it's good to know why it's happening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As to not using a shoulder rest, I've tried it a few times and really haven't got on too well, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it 'right' - should your actual shoulder be touching the violin at all?
Anyway, I don't have too many problems using one, so I might as well stick to that for now - really interesting thread though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jojo]

As to not using a shoulder rest,
should your actual shoulder be touching the violin at all?

if by shoulder you mean the very tip of your shoulder (ie the 'rotator cuff') then no...
it's a bit difficult to say with just words, would a video help? or a photo?
how can I describe it, if I talk about a female violinist, 'imagine' the female wearing no top just a bra (ooooerrrr (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)) by shoulder do you mean the bit from the bra strap to the arm? that bit should NOT touch the violin
if you want to see how I hold the violin with no shoulder rest you can look at me playing a VERY BAD out of tune and horrible Meditation from Thais full of shaky bows
you can play it with no sound that will help a LOT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)
here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlCVLFT0Zw

ps I can't believe I have just posted that link (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[muzikalbadger]

if you want to see how I hold the violin with no shoulder rest you can look at me playing a VERY BAD out of tune and horrible Meditation from Thais full of shaky bows
you can play it with no sound that will help a LOT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)
here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlCVLFT0Zw

ps I can't believe I have just posted that link (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That was lovely Jojo!! A few wobbles admittedly, but on the whole very secure, and a difficult piece to pull off well!! Really enjoyed listening to that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jojo]

That was lovely Jojo!! A few wobbles admittedly, but on the whole very secure, and a difficult piece to pull off well!! Really enjoyed listening to that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

you're very kind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
in my defence I'd like to say:
it's a piece I had not played in SIX months, I only brushed it up an hour the night before
I have played with no shoulder rest ONLY for 8 days by that day
it was only my 2nd performance in public (if you count exams then my fourth)
so I think if we take the 3 above excuses into consideration I feel a little better about myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

ps also the video is not 'centred' as we didn't ask the accompanist whether we had permission to video him so it would not have been fair to do so, it was a last minute 'rushed' video LOL

[muzikalbadger]

That was lovely Jojo!! A few wobbles admittedly, but on the whole very secure, and a difficult piece to pull off well!! Really enjoyed listening to that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

you're very kind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
in my defence I'd like to say:
it's a piece I had not played in SIX months, I only brushed it up an hour the night before
I have played with no shoulder rest ONLY for 8 days by that day
it was only my 2nd performance in public (if you count exams then my fourth)
so I think if we take the 3 above excuses into consideration I feel a little better about myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Definitely an excellent performance based on that then!!! Well Done!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[barncottagecat]

My daughter plays without a shoulder rest. She is 12 and having found a conventional one very uncomfortable. she had a play-on-air inflatable pad for a while, but having realised that lots of the greatest violinists of the 20th C didn't use one, she decided not to, and hasn't looked back. She loves being able to just pick up her violin, and play with no fuss.

To be honest, though, it rather depends on your physiology. If you have a very long neck (she doesn't) I imagine it could be rather uncomfortable.

[Organistin]

you're very kind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
in my defence I'd like to say:
it's a piece I had not played in SIX months, I only brushed it up an hour the night before
I have played with no shoulder rest ONLY for 8 days by that day
it was only my 2nd performance in public (if you count exams then my fourth)
so I think if we take the 3 above excuses into consideration I feel a little better about myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That's going really well with no shoulder rest!
Meditation sounded lovely - as Muzikalbadger says, difficult to bring off well. Yes you had bow wobbles, but I find there is something about that piece that makes it prone to bow wobbles in the first place - it's the need for long drawn out bows on quiet notes that causes it, coupled with nerves.

And don't forget jojo, you had several weeks of practising very little of anything due to the pain you had!

[Celeste]

I know that I 'should' be able to play without a shoulder rest

My teacher doesn't have a problem with me using a shoulder rest, thinks my set up is fine and has told me not to worry about it - but I know that it's something everyone is meant to be able to do... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I don't see where the problem is Flossie, is there a problem?

your teacher is happy, you don't actually have a problem playing with a rest (you actually mention a problem playing WITHOUT right?), you don't seem to have a 'desire' to play without a rest, so it sounds to me you are actually in a perfect situation already right?
(correct me if I am reading your post wrong though by all means)
so.....don't give yourself a problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) carry on as you are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

if someone told you that 'people are meant to be able to play without a shoulder rest' then I think that someone might have mislead you a little bit, that is a little bit too much of a generalisation. Ok, maybe in general many people 'can' play without one BUT certainly DO NOT make it YOUR problem Flossie ok? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and certainly not if you don't have a problem to begin with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

Flossie - I can't do it either. And to be quite honest - I don't want to! You play well with a shoulder rest, why jeopardise that by having to re-learn things? It's all down to personal preference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[karslima]

Whilst I'm very happy for anyone who feels that playing without a shoulder rest is beneficial, I'm not about to move over to the other side. It took me too many years to get to feeling 'competent' to risk going backwards.

People often mention that short necked people could manage without a shoulder rest, but I have a short neck and I feel as if I need a S/R. It could be because I have a slight scoliosis (who doesn't?) that causes my neck and head to lean to the right. Playing the violin forces my head and neck to tilt over to the left which probably explains why after more than an hour of playing my neck kills me. I dread to think what it would be like if I didn't use a S/R. (And yes I do go for regular bone crunching sessions to sort things out, but the body has a habit of going back to where it started from).