Poll - shoulder rest or no shoulder rest? Options

[miffy]

[quote name='karslima%2

Whilst I'm very happy for anyone who feels that playing without a shoulder rest is beneficial, I'm not about to move over to the other side. It took me too many years to get to feeling 'competent' to risk going backwards.

People often mention that short necked people could manage without a shoulder rest, but I have a short neck and I feel as if I need a S/R. It could be because I have a slight scoliosis (who doesn't?) that causes my neck and head to lean to the right. Playing the violin forces my head and neck to tilt over to the left which probably explains why after more than an hour of playing my neck kills me. I dread to think what it would be like if I didn't use a S/R. (And yes I do go for regular bone crunching sessions to sort things out, but the body has a habit of going back to where it started from).

Just interested in your last comment, Karslima - I was talking to a violin friend the other day who has used an osteopath here and there for years, but she said for some reason the good effects last for less time each time now. Is this a common problem do you know?

[jojo]

Whilst I'm very happy for anyone who feels that playing without a shoulder rest is beneficial, I'm not about to move over to the other side. It took me too many years to get to feeling 'competent' to risk going backwards.

People often mention that short necked people could manage without a shoulder rest, but I have a short neck and I feel as if I need a S/R. It could be because I have a slight scoliosis (who doesn't?) that causes my neck and head to lean to the right. Playing the violin forces my head and neck to tilt over to the left which probably explains why after more than an hour of playing my neck kills me. I dread to think what it would be like if I didn't use a S/R. (And yes I do go for regular bone crunching sessions to sort things out, but the body has a habit of going back to where it started from).

The best thing for each individual is always to do what they feel is right for them at that moment in time given their individual situation, taking into consideration also what resources they have available to them (financial, professional advice, material, etc and so on).

One should try to achieve 'ideally' a situation where they can play pain/tension free with no impediments to their technique, so we aim for this as much as we can right?

whether this is with a shoulder rest, without, with a sponge, with a sling, or whatever, does it really matter? not really at the end of the day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

some of us use Alexander Technique, some chiropractors, some osteopaths, some yoga, some a combination of these and other aids and so on

some of us spend years or a whole lifetime trying to discover what works best, some never discover it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Interesting about what the violinist Miffy knows said about the osteopath....
the osteopath I have recently seen about my upper back 'problem' has just 'fixed' my problem and he said my problem will never come back, not unless I have another traume (meaning an accident). I shall certainly keep you informed. Miffy, has this violinist told you the cause of her problem? some people have a disfunctional problem from birth or other cause, mine was from an accident, so the cause can also make a difference as to whether the problem can 'sprout' again.....

I can sympathise with the feeling that Karslima has about not wanting to 'go backwards' if making the decision to ditch the shoulder rest, I had this fear too and I am only maybe grade 6 in my ability! I was surprised to actually find out I didn't go backwards at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
STILL, one really HAS to want to go shoulder 'rest-less' to do it, so I would not tell karslima to do it or anyone else to do it, they have to have it in them, if the desire is not there do not it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) there's no point in doing it just to prove a point or just because you have a short neck, that would be 'silly' I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[miffy]

Jojo, this lady fell off a horse about 20 years ago, and after the initial injuries were healed she thought no more of it at the time, but gradually started to have problems, especially when playing violin. She teaches full time and does a fair amount of orchestral playing. She just happened to mention it the other day, so reading Karslima's post just now reminded me. I don't actually know what her injuries were at the time though.

[jojo]

Jojo, this lady fell off a horse about 20 years ago

ouch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Guitar_tempo]

When I started learning viola, I was given a sponge and thats how I first learned to play but then I got a bit fed up of feeling like a child with a sponge and elastic band (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) so then I acquired my first shoulder rest and played totally happy for ages until recently.

I used to play with my viola fairly forwards facing but then realised my shoulder rest was basically just on my front (and making fingering harder than it had to be!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) so I decided to play around with my shoulder rest and how I hold my viola and I found that I like my viola more sideways and that me and my shoulder rest were just NOT getting on as it was just either uncomfortable if I played for too long or it was just downright painful! (hence it's now hidden in shame in my desk!) so for the last few days I've just gone without shoulder rest and just only used a centimeter thick sponge and it has been ok actually! Even though I can feel the increased pressure, it's still comfortable! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Now I'm not sure whether or not to try a different shoulder rest! (im kind of in the middle here) Though some time soon I'm expecting receive a viola viola (not a violin tuned wrong as people like to keep teasing me! damn the local music service not having any bigger ones left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ) so I guess I should wait until then as my shoulder rest needs might change with a bigger and heavier instrument! Except no music stores around here will have viola shoulder rests to try, ah well, worth an ask! just need viola to arrive now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

[miffy]

Jojo, this lady fell off a horse about 20 years ago

ouch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

naughty bitey dangerous things (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) been on one once, and it might partly have been my fault too...but never getting on one again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[mcm]

Now I'm not sure whether or not to try a different shoulder rest! (im kind of in the middle here) Though some time soon I'm expecting receive a viola viola (not a violin tuned wrong as people like to keep teasing me! damn the local music service not having any bigger ones left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ) so I guess I should wait until then as my shoulder rest needs might change with a bigger and heavier instrument! Except no music stores around here will have viola shoulder rests to try, ah well, worth an ask! just need viola to arrive now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

I think you should certainly wait until you get the real viola - a violin sr is unlikely to fit it. Also if you are trying out rests, consider the Playonair where you can adjust the height a bit by blowing it up more or less hard.

[Guitar_tempo]

Now I'm not sure whether or not to try a different shoulder rest! (im kind of in the middle here) Though some time soon I'm expecting receive a viola viola (not a violin tuned wrong as people like to keep teasing me! damn the local music service not having any bigger ones left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ) so I guess I should wait until then as my shoulder rest needs might change with a bigger and heavier instrument! Except no music stores around here will have viola shoulder rests to try, ah well, worth an ask! just need viola to arrive now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

I think you should certainly wait until you get the real viola - a violin sr is unlikely to fit it. Also if you are trying out rests, consider the Playonair where you can adjust the height a bit by blowing it up more or less hard.

Thanks for the suggestion, will check it out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I have a viola shoulder rest already that shrinks down to 4/4 violin size (in anticipation of eventually getting a bigger viola) which is exactly the problem you mentioned in reverse!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) so for now shoulder restless until bigger viola (who knows, it may work fine for me with a bigger instrument!)

[viola-mad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlCVLFT0Zw

Sorry, I know this is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offTopic.gif) but I just had to comment. Jojo, I'm really struck by how comfortable and confident you look. Your posture when you're playing looks like that of somebody who has been playing much longer. And it looks like you are playing from memory too - very brave!! Nice work.

[jojo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlCVLFT0Zw

Sorry, I know this is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offTopic.gif) but I just had to comment. Jojo, I'm really struck by how comfortable and confident you look. Your posture when you're playing looks like that of somebody who has been playing much longer. And it looks like you are playing from memory too - very brave!! Nice work.

hehehehe, it's not too much off topic as it's about 'shoulder rests and not shoulder rests' blah blah
but thank you for your feedback, much appreciated
it looks like I am playing from memory because I AM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
I absolutely refuse to perform unless I perform from memory, to me if I don't perform from memory than I don't know a piece well enough hence it is not up to performance standard. Please note: I said TO ME I know others may be different, but I know myself really well, if I have studied/practiced a piece well enough I will just remember it, infact I will just stop looking at the music anyway, even at home!
Looking at the music will then just detract me away from 'being with the music' and I will not be able to give it my full self if I can make any sense here.....

as for my posture when you say I look like someone who has been playing much longer do you mean much longer without a shoulder rest? or much longer than 4 years? I have been learning violin for 4 years and been playing 4 years with a shoulder rest and 8 days without a shoulder rest. I agree with you that I am myself quite 'shocked' by how quickly I have 'picked up' playing without a shoulder rest (I have to say I was using a sponge for a couple of weeks before these 8 days....still quite impressed though.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
BUT I really had a STRONG desire/determination in me to do it, I also THOROUGHLY researched the non shoulder rest subject and posture/technique and have contacted some professional players over the world for advice on technique and posture too to make sure I was doing the right thing.
Of course maybe the determination was a big big factor?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[viola-mad]

Shoulder rest or not, you just look really comfortable. Some poor souls look like they are tying themselves up in knots when they play, whether that's because they are consciously thinking "must remember to do such-and-such with that hand" or whatever, or whether they just have some unusual way of standing or holding the instrument/bow. I would not have known you'd been playing without a shoulder rest for such a short time if you hadn't said.

[jojo]

Shoulder rest or not, you just look really comfortable.

I would not have known you'd been playing without a shoulder rest for such a short time if you hadn't said.

'cool' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thanks.gif)

ps if you go in my youtube account you can see the video of a performance prior to that one, done in Leeds in January 2011, in that one I was using a shoulder rest and a heightened chin rest, you can then see if you think I look less comfortable and more contorted or equally comfortable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(I know how I feel..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif))

[karslima]

yes I do go for regular bone crunching sessions to sort things out, but the body has a habit of going back to where it started from.

Just interested in your last comment, Karslima - I was talking to a violin friend the other day who has used an osteopath here and there for years, but she said for some reason the good effects last for less time each time now. Is this a common problem do you know?

I'm not sure I can say whether it is a common situation, I can only speak for myself. I've been seeing chiropractors and osteopaths for years. At least my osteopath is trying to increase the time between visits so she isn't a money grabber, but I've been to others who suggested that I would need treatment every two weeks with no end date in sight. I think our bodies settle into a way of working so even if the osteo/chiro straightens things out then it all shifts back again over a period of weeks or months.