Moving to France, Any tips? Options

[Czerny]

I would like to move to France, preferably Paris. My French is quite good, but not fluent or 100% accurate; around B2 level, or good A-level. I have a two-bedroom flat in London with a smallish mortgage (less than 20% of the value of the property) that I could rent out, providing a small income, and a decent chunk of savings that I could live off for a couple of years if necessary. I have no particular ties.

I know that the music education system is very different in France and that it is not the easiest city in the world in which to find accommodation. I also gather that bureaucracy makes things quite complicated for foreigners. I am not inclined to take any major risks, such as going out there without having previously found a job.

So - is it doable? And what would be the best way to go about finding a job (preferably piano teaching, or possibly teaching English) and an apartment (preferably fairly central).

I'd be grateful both for opinions and for any tips and advice people can offer.

Thank you.

[freda_bloogs]

I'm currently doing exactly the same thing as you - but for the second time. Have a look at http://daleybrennan.wordpress.com - it's a blog that I made to put down a lot the information that I had accumulated over my 3-and-a-bit years there so that I wouldn't forget it all and that it be somewhat useful to other people wanting to move there. It is rather Paris-centric, too.

[Czerny]

Thanks, that's really useful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[freda_bloogs]

No problem. If you have any questions about anything I've written, stick it in here and I'll happily get back to you.

[Roseau]

I was going to send you a PM but your PM box appears to be either full or blocked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I was going to say that I can give you lots of details about the "official" French music system but not before the end of the week as I am rather busy. I'm also not sure exactly what you want to know.

[Czerny]

I was going to send you a PM but your PM box appears to be either full or blocked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I was going to say that I can give you lots of details about the "official" French music system but not before the end of the week as I am rather busy. I'm also not sure exactly what you want to know.

No, not blocked at all! Sorry! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

That would be really helpful, although I've sort of given up hope of getting a job in a French school - but perhaps that's defeatist?

I suppose I want to know whether it's possible, with decent qualifications and reasonable French - but neither French qualifications nor fluent French - to break in to life in France, without having pots of money, a French partner, or a partner who already has a job there. In other words, no real contacts, although I do know a couple of people who live in Paris; one French, one British.

Will scuttle off and clear out my in-box. Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Roseau]

I suppose I want to know whether it's possible, with decent qualifications and reasonable French - but neither French qualifications nor fluent French - to break in to life in France, without having pots of money, a French partner, or a partner who already has a job there. In other words, no real contacts, although I do know a couple of people who live in Paris; one French, one British.

Possible but not easy. Admittedly I don't teach music but when I arrived in France I fitted your description (Over the years I have acquired French qualifications, fluent French and a French partner but am still waiting for the pots of money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

Will scuttle off and clear out my in-box. Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Will send you a PM when your in-box has room.

[freda_bloogs]

I suppose I want to know whether it's possible, with decent qualifications and reasonable French - but neither French qualifications nor fluent French - to break in to life in France, without having pots of money, a French partner, or a partner who already has a job there. In other words, no real contacts, although I do know a couple of people who live in Paris; one French, one British.

Well, I did it (admittedly with lots of friendly help from Kerioboe and Rosfrog (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). I had A-Level when I went and that really wasn't enough. The thing is though, I don't think you'd ever be able to train yourself up enough in this country to just fit right in when you got over there. At some point you've got to take the plunge, so A-Level is as good a point as any. I got by in the first few weeks through mumbling through banks, insurance companies and EDF, as well as being fortunate enough to be dealt with by some patient Parisians. Parisians get a bad rep but, really, they need more credit. It was very rare that I met a Parisian who couldn't communicate basically in English.

EDF, I believe, actually has a telephone line you can call to speak to an English speaker. So that's one less thing to worry about.

Accommodation isn't hard to find in Paris, but one that you would deem value for money probably is. If you don't mind paying a little more but want less hassle and don't want to deal with a landlord, then going through an agency (agence) is the way to go. Your monthly rent will be more or less the same, but you'll pay some frais d'agence at the beginning of the lease. If there's any vocabulary to learn beforehand, it'd definitely be renting and banking.

I don't think that you'd have any trouble meeting people in Paris. In my first few weeks I went along to a very friendly choir. (It was weird singing in French-Latin!) There is a thriving ex-pat community, too, so you could always get your fix of Britishness.

Before you go, I'd get your English qualifications professionally translated. They insist on un traducteur asserment? - doing it yourself often won't work. Between you and me and the rest of the forum, I do it myself and then sign off another signature on the back or add a 'with compliments' slip. Once translated, they'll be recognised.

In Paris, you'd not have any problem getting a job. There are always posts for English teachers, trained or otherwise, and music teachers, especially those who teach in English, in the usual places.

[Aquarelle]

In Paris, you'd not have any problem getting a job. There are always posts for English teachers, trained or otherwise, and music teachers, especially those who teach in English, in the usual places.

I am fascinated by your experience of life in France! You have obviously had a great time. I too love it here but would be a little wary of setting out now without help. Because I am about as far from Paris as you can get and buriedin rural France my experiences have been very different. Also I am certainly older than you so my idea of the beauties of France are not centred round the bright lights of Paris - as they were once(!) but rather on the beautiful countryside around me!

Can I just, out of curiosity, ask what you mean by "in the usual places" in the quote above? We have a small
number of English families down here in the SW and I currently have two English pupils whom I teach in English. There's an international school in Bordeaux and one in Toulouse where as far as I know there are ABRSM exams and I think the teachers are probably English. But I wondered what the usual places might be in Paris.

Czerny, I would say that anything kerioboe can tell you about the French music teaching system is very much worth reading. She has helped me a lot in my dealings with it. I am in a rather odd position of having worked more or less as I pleased in an "associative" music school but the law has now caught up with us
and we are obliged to submit to the rules. What this really means is that the music school will probably fold up over the next couple of years. I am going "private" so will probably take a drop in income. But it's a complicated story.

As far as teaching English is concerned it is a good second string to your bow and could even be your major opportunity in the first instance. However, you do really need to know something about teaching English as a foreign language. I did a year's course in TEFL before coming to France. I also have a degree in English Literature but as you probably know by now, getting a job in a French school would be extremely difficult if not impossible. I got in through the back door but only because I live in a small place which happens to have a Catholic private establishment which offers of primary, secondary and professional education. They used me as a stop gap for teaching English and I had a series of yearly contracts. Beware of the term "private" in French education as it soesn't mean anything like the same as it does in English. I would never have been accepted in the state system.

Anyway, good luck with your project and don't be afraid to ask me anything I might be able to help with.

[Czerny]

Can I just, out of curiosity, ask what you mean by "in the usual places" in the quote above? We have a small
number of English families down here in the SW and I currently have two English pupils whom I teach in English. There's an international school in Bordeaux and one in Toulouse where as far as I know there are ABRSM exams and I think the teachers are probably English. But I wondered what the usual places might be in Paris.

Yes, I wondered this too!

Thanks, everybody, for all your help - much appreciated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[elephant]

Just one thing no one's mentioned so far (although it may be in the blog referred to in one of the posts). The French "national health" system doesn't work in quite the same way as the English one, the main difference being you don't get automatic 100% free coverage.

The systems are good and there are reciprocal arrangements between countries, but you'd be well advised to check out your health insurance position...

[Dulciana]

I've no advice to give, but this is just to say you're very brave and to wish you the best of luck! I'm slightly jealous, because if I had no ties and was younger I would be considering something like this myself.

[Dugazon]

I also can't give advice on France, but have a pretty good idea about all the ups and downs of "emigration" (I don't think this sounds right within the EU, because legally, it's quite straightforward and much less complicated than moving somewhere else).

I took the step some 5 years ago, have not regretted it once, but it's not always easy (and I didn't have any language problems to start with because I was already fluent at that stage). To be totally honest, the formal stuff is probably the easiest part, because you can find ample information online, there are tons of expat forums etc where you can ask your questions and so on.

The things that nobody prepares you for are the little cultural differences, how not to put your foot in without noticing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) , how friendships are built, how to deal with homesickness etc.
A lot of people will say: "I will not feel homesick, because I don't like where I am living now." I was a bit like that (although certainly not naive), and I always thought I wouldn't miss much about my native country because I never had a sense of "national identity", or liked anything about my native country as such. You only notice it once you have moved. The first months are usually too exciting and busy, but once routine sets in, it gets everyone, some more, some less.

You mentioned you want a job first: I don't know how the French deal with this, but if I had tried it that way, I would probably still not be living here - it is notoriously difficult to find a job if you are not already living in the country (very specialised fields like research etc aside). If the French are anything like the British in that respect, you might need to be prepared to move first.

Whatever you do - good luck. It's a massive step, but also a very rewarding one.

[elephant]

<<The things that nobody prepares you for are the little cultural differences, how not to put your foot in without noticing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) , how friendships are built, >>

That's right, but finding out about all of this is one of the most rewarding aspects of the experience....

Dugazon also mentions being in the country to find work. Couldn't agree more ... Many years ago teaching English in schools such as Berlitz was the way in ('cause you had to get a resident's permit in those days, not necessary within EU now). Just look in one the major newspapers (Le Figaro used to do most of these ads) and don't be afraid to ring up cold.

There's an American Church in Paris which was (is) also a source of info for jobs, etc. and (if I remember rightly) an American magazine ...

Sorry can't give more details, my own route was more family related and I didn't have the language issue either. On the other hand I've known lots and lots and lots of people who've done this and been perfectly successful and happy. And after all, it's not that far from UK !!!

Give it a try, and best of luck !!!

[Organistin]

Not France... but still some of this info could be useful.
I moved to Austria 2 years ago and I absolutely love it.

Healthcare
I obtained an E106 form before I left with entitles you to healthcare in another EU country for a certain length of time - in my case I was entitled to 18 months but didn't need that long. This will cover you until you obtain a job and start paying social security contributions that way. In Austria if you are not paying in you are not entitled to free state health care. I'd imagine France might be the same. So it's very important that you find out what the situation is in France and make sure you are covered.

Language language language
You already have a decent amount of French. Going on an advanced course at a language school when you get there would really help if you think it needs a top up and you get to meet people too.
As someone else suggested it is useful to make sure you learn the relevant vocab for banking, renting etc. Try to think of areas where your French might be lacking - I had a good standard of German before coming here but I had never had to do things like set up the utilities, set up standing orders and so on and so some of the vocab was lacking. I found it useful to have an exercise book to write relevant vocab in before phoning someone up about something - ie. I prepared for each conversation when I first came here and that really helped.
Don't be shy either, just get stuck in.

Avoid Loneliness
I don't know if you are going to be emigrating alone or with family but either way it is important to build friendships. I emigrated with my ex-partner (now thankfully departed back to where he came from - and it is a long story but basically he was completely lazy...) and one of us managed to build friendships and the other didn't... and guess which one is still here.
I joined 2 choirs and an orchestra straight away. Choirs are brilliant for getting to grips with the language - you learn so much vocab and grammar without much effort. You sing, it goes in your head, next thing it's coming out of your mouth in conversation. Amazing really
Aside from the language thing, you meet loads of people straight away and have people to socialize with. You also have something to do two or three times a week which is something to look forward to and gives you a routine.
In Austria people don't really socialize by hanging round at each others' houses or having dinner parties. They generally go to a club of some description, do whatever activity it is (whether that is orchestra, Eisstockschiessen, red cross etc) and then go to a Gasthof and socialize. Unfortunately my ex wouldn't be "advised" about this and point blank refused to join anything (for some reason I could never get to the bottom of) even though there were loads of things he would have enjoyed and the result of this was he kept complaining about having no friends.
You need to work out what the culture is and how people socialize in your new country and then make the effort yourself to find friends.
And one other thing - your friendships in your home country took a long time to build and that will be the same in your new country. You cannot expect to arrive and have a best friend within 5 minutes. My ex could never get to grips with that.

Work
I spent 18 months as a part time cleaner while I worked on building up a private music teaching business. It was important that I had the time to be really secure with the language (I had to learn all the musical terms from scratch - a beginner theory book in the new language is really useful for that!)
The cleaning wasn't great but it paid the bills and of course it meant I was paying social security contributions and it gave me the chance to work on what I wanted to.
So be flexible in your choice of job - and if it isn't your dream job, work work work towards what you really want to do. Look on your job as a means to an end which pays the bills.
I know I keep mentioning my ex.. but.. it is important because he just couldn't hack it here and unfortunately the majority of the blame lies at his feet. Anyway, he suddenly decided after 4 months here that he wanted a top job (despite not having such a job in the UK) but that was just not possible. His German was not great and remained not great because he didn't put the effort in. This meant that he just couldn't get the sort of job he wanted. He wasn't prepared to take a part time job while studying to improve his language and to update his skills so he could get a "better" job. Be realistic.

Final thought - moving to a new country is really exciting. Definitely go for it. I love it and I've never been homesick once. I have met some fabulous people and I have done loads of things here that I would never have done in the UK.