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> Firmly I believe and truly
porilo
post Jun 25 2011, 12:09 PM
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Hi! Last week, Trinity Sunday, one of the hymns at church was "Firmly I believe and truly". We had a fairly poor response from the congregation. Some people were singing but a lot of them seem to be quite bemused. I played the tune which I have always played, and in fact the only tune which I know, "Omni Die". This morning I had an email from the vicar, as I will be playing there tomorrow, and he wants the same hymn again but to the "other tune that everyone knows". That is what he wrote. Could anyone please tell me what the "other" tune could possibly be so that I can be prepared. I don't know any other tunes to that hymn and all my hymnals have "Omni Die" as the tune. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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mwl1
post Jun 25 2011, 12:13 PM
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I suspect it will be 'Holton Holgate'. Which hymnal are you using?
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porilo
post Jun 25 2011, 12:15 PM
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I've never heard of that one before. I normally use Laudate but sometimes Complete Mission Praise.
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maggiemay
post Jun 25 2011, 12:30 PM
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Working from memory (will double check) ... Eisenach or Halton Holgate.

My old EH has Shipston.

(ed) no, sorry - Eisenach is totally the wrong metre. Must have been thinking of something else).

You can also use Stuttgart (Bethlehem of noblest cities).
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Vox Humana
post Jun 25 2011, 01:35 PM
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The two most likely suspects are "Holton Holgate" and "Shipston". The former is the one set in Hymns A & M; the latter is the one in English Hymnal. I must admit that in 50-odd years I had never encountered "Holton Holgate" until I went to my present church, but that may just be me. I have also heard it sung to "Sussex", which fits well and will probably be known to all and sundry.
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bourdon16
post Jun 25 2011, 02:42 PM
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Years ago (back in the 60s), when the 'modern' tune for At the name of Jesus came out (Camberwell by Brierley) in that pinkesh book of 20th century tunes, there was a good tune for Firmly I believe, but as my copy is at school I cannot look it up.
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Barry Williams
post Jun 25 2011, 10:21 PM
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The tune Bourdon 16 refers to is 'Alton', on page 11 of the pink book.

It is a nice little fox-trot by Patrick Appleford. However, the tune detracts from the import of the poetry. In this case the poem is rather fine and noble. Neither term could be used of 'Alton', though as a stand-alone tune is it quite pleasing. Its failure is as an hymn tune, not as a melody in itself.

Barry Williams
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bourdon16
post Jun 26 2011, 08:41 AM
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Thanks Barry.

I tend to agree, but don't suppose I was much bothered when I was taught it 45 years ago! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

The one I like least in the volume is "God of mercy God of grace".
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dotted quaver
post Jun 26 2011, 12:37 PM
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Hope you got the correct tune in time for the service! Sometimes clergy find it hard to understand that the tune normally used for a given hymn is not the one on the same page in the church hymnal.
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porilo
post Jun 26 2011, 01:13 PM
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Well I got there early to check tunes with the vicar. Played "my tune", Omni Die, to the vicar and he said "no, no, no, not that one". Looked in hymnal and found 2 tunes, Shipston and Holton Holgate. Started to play Shipston and he said "yes, that's the one". OK, I can sight-read that, no problem. Played it during the Service and apart from the vicar absolutely nobody sang and I saw many blank looks on peoples' faces. Afterwards he said to me "that didn't go very well, did it?". Holding back my impulse to say "I told you so", I replied "not really, but perhaps next time we could use my tune which I've been playing for the last 32 years". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Dulcet
post Jun 26 2011, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE(porilo @ Jun 26 2011, 02:13 PM) *

Well I got there early to check tunes with the vicar. Played "my tune", Omni Die, to the vicar and he said "no, no, no, not that one". Looked in hymnal and found 2 tunes, Shipston and Holton Holgate. Started to play Shipston and he said "yes, that's the one". OK, I can sight-read that, no problem. Played it during the Service and apart from the vicar absolutely nobody sang and I saw many blank looks on peoples' faces. Afterwards he said to me "that didn't go very well, did it?". Holding back my impulse to say "I told you so", I replied "not really, but perhaps next time we could use my tune which I've been playing for the last 32 years". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I've only ever heard Halton Holgate and Alton. Which is indeed a fine and noble town ;-)
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cantoris
post Jun 26 2011, 07:34 PM
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I've used both Shipston (from English Hymnal) and Halton Holgate from A&M. The latter is by far the best tune. The majestic theme of the words is diminished by Shipston (sorry, RVW) but Halton Holgate suits them perfectly. I remember an organist's workshop led by Lionel Dakers when he compared HH to Alton (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Nigel
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Vox Humana
post Jun 26 2011, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE(porilo @ Jun 26 2011, 02:13 PM) *
Well I got there early to check tunes with the vicar. Played "my tune", Omni Die, to the vicar and he said "no, no, no, not that one". Looked in hymnal and found 2 tunes, Shipston and Holton Holgate. Started to play Shipston and he said "yes, that's the one". OK, I can sight-read that, no problem. Played it during the Service and apart from the vicar absolutely nobody sang and I saw many blank looks on peoples' faces. Afterwards he said to me "that didn't go very well, did it?". Holding back my impulse to say "I told you so", I replied "not really, but perhaps next time we could use my tune which I've been playing for the last 32 years". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

All of which rather proves that the vicar hadn't a clue about what the congregation really knew. Same old story, repeated time and again throughout the land. Why do so many clergy always think they know best? Why don't they seek and take advice from those who know? It's really quite refreshing on the rare occasions one comes across someone who thinks ahead and plans properly. But most are perfectly content with a simple, bumbling amateurism - and then wonder why their churches are emptying while cathedrals congregations grow. It makes me so angry. You can tell, can't you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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principal4
post Jun 27 2011, 10:15 AM
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My church currently uses Hymns Old and New - New Anglican, which gives three tunes for this hymn: Alton, Shipston and Halton Holgate (in that order). I'm not particularly fond of any of 'em and I don't care much for Newman's words either, so to make the best of a bad job we had FIBAT as the recessional on Trinity Sunday, with tune Alton to make a quick exit.

P4
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porilo
post Jun 27 2011, 10:21 AM
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Really? No Omni Die then? Surely I'm not the only person who knows Omni Die. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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