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> Hymns and the Visitor, Any suggestions?
mel2
post Jul 23 2011, 10:31 AM
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I nearly said 'hymns for the unchurched' but didn't want to initiate a slanging match; I've no problem with non-churchgoers and genuinely want to make the experience of a service as rewarding as possible for them so would appreciate any thoughts on a situation that arises here monthly.

I am annoyed that after an 11 hour day yesterday that included work, organ practice and choir practice, I found a message on my answering machine requesting that the hymns be changed.

When I returned the call the reasoning was " I'm sorry it is such short notice but I've just got back from holiday and it is the Family/Welcome ~Service this Sunday and they won't know any of the hymns on the list".........[truncate conversation but the next bit was exactly the words used]....." I haven't decided what I'm going to talk about yet".


So we are to ditch 'Now thank we all our God', 'Praise we now the word of Grace', 'Praise my soul the King of Heaven', and 'Bright the vision'.
Let us ignore the fact that I had spent nearly an hour going through these line by line with the non-music readers in the choir.

None of these would have them rocking at Greenbelt, admittedly, but my contention is that the irregular visitor is unlikely to be all that familiar with the alternative hymns that I have been instructed to play i.e 'Morning has Broken, 'Give me oil in my lamp' and 'O Jesus I have promised', either. Clearly, no more thought has gone into this selection than could be managed in the blink of an eye.

So the question is, what do others do when they know a fair proportion of the congregation will be, if not first timers, at least unfamiliar with the culture? I know for a fact that a handful of the regulars avoid this service because of the likely presence of fidgety infants and the vacuous theology that will be presented. (I hasten to add that the service is being conducted by a Reader, not the Vicar, who submitted the original list for my approval).

What hymns would you suggest as an alternative? Because if I am to play this c@rp I shall go on pedal strike and not vary the registration one jot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) We have Common Praise, Mission Praise and A+M to hand.





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Barry Williams
post Sep 5 2011, 07:12 PM
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Whenever I am called upon to play items such as "What a friend we have in Jesus", I use the superb arrangements in 'Sixty Songs from Sankey' by Charles Cleall. These versions impart musical dignity to the otherwise trivial harmonies that detract from the sense of the words.

Many are now 'classics', on the lines of 'O Lord my God', which often appears in a debased form in certain hymnals. (It is entirely a modern item and has no relation to any Russian or Scandinavian piece, despite certain claims made.) These items are certainly much better than many that are published as being 'modern' in hymn books often discussed on this board.

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Stephen Barber
post Sep 5 2011, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE(Barry Williams @ Sep 5 2011, 08:12 PM) *


Many are now 'classics', on the lines of 'O Lord my God', which often appears in a debased form in certain hymnals. (It is entirely a modern item and has no relation to any Russian or Scandinavian piece, despite certain claims made.)
Barry Williams

Are you sure, Barry? Wikipedia (I know, not necessarily greatly scholarly!) has a very impressive and detailed account of the hymn's origins:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Great_Thou_Art_%28hymn%29

The original Swedish words are (allegedly) here:
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1118653
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Posts in this topic
mel2   Hymns and the Visitor   Jul 23 2011, 10:31 AM
BadStrad   So we are to ditch 'Now thank we all our God...   Jul 23 2011, 11:42 AM
tamsin   I'm not a very dedicated church attender, and ...   Jul 23 2011, 06:12 PM
stetenorve   "Give me oil in my lamp" gives me the sh...   Jul 23 2011, 09:59 PM
principal4   "Give me oil in my lamp" gives me the s...   Jul 25 2011, 07:23 AM
A.U.K   "Give me oil in my lamp" gives me the ...   Jul 29 2011, 03:03 PM
Swell Box   [quote name='principal4' post='1078263' date='Jul...   Jul 29 2011, 08:21 PM
Stephen Barber   I can see now why I left the church years ago..Th...   Jul 29 2011, 08:32 PM
Swell Box   I can't understand how any church can not be ...   Jul 29 2011, 10:14 PM
saxophile   I think the Church of England (especially) is in ...   Aug 8 2011, 01:12 PM
mel2   Mel2 I'm sorry you are having such a trying...   Jul 29 2011, 09:28 PM
randomsabreur   Although I can understand Morning has broken, the ...   Jul 23 2011, 10:05 PM
mel2   Thanks all for the input. I shall hold out for Pra...   Jul 23 2011, 10:32 PM
Swell Box   Thanks all for the input. I shall hold out for Pr...   Jul 25 2011, 08:07 AM
mel2   It is a disgrace that your Minister (or whoever) ...   Jul 25 2011, 09:38 AM
Barry Williams   It is a disgrace that your Minister (or whoever)...   Jul 25 2011, 10:23 AM
tamsin   Maybe try and think of it as doing your bit to mak...   Jul 24 2011, 07:28 AM
Czerny   None of these would have them rocking at Greenbel...   Jul 24 2011, 07:36 AM
Dulcet   This may not be helpful, however; I'm a non-...   Jul 24 2011, 01:07 PM
mel2   The offender was changing the hymn numbers on the ...   Jul 24 2011, 11:45 AM
fsharpminor   I do not know the hymn numbers until I turn up for...   Jul 25 2011, 10:26 AM
maggiemay   Mel2, I agree wholeheartedly with those who've...   Jul 25 2011, 11:10 AM
Swell Box   It is a disgrace that your Minister (or whoever)...   Jul 25 2011, 10:04 PM
mel2   Rather than putting up a notice (which would prob...   Jul 25 2011, 10:25 PM
Barry Williams   "If the matter is raised under 'correspon...   Jul 26 2011, 12:22 AM
Vox Humana   More importantly, raising it with the PCC might gi...   Jul 26 2011, 06:46 AM
mel2   Whoops, to whom should I address the notice/letter...   Jul 26 2011, 11:00 AM
Barry Williams   The only person who has the final word in this is ...   Jul 26 2011, 12:47 PM
mel2   The only person who has the final word in this is...   Jul 27 2011, 11:42 AM
principal4   Guess I'm very lucky with my vicar, then. He...   Jul 26 2011, 05:08 PM
Stephen Barber   I suggest not writing anything to anyone. Why not ...   Jul 26 2011, 07:50 PM
Barry Williams   I suggest not writing anything to anyone. Why not...   Jul 26 2011, 10:39 PM
Swell Box   Mel will know the individuals concerned and the ci...   Jul 27 2011, 12:09 PM
Barry Williams   "if the matter is brought before the PCC ther...   Jul 27 2011, 01:50 PM
Swell Box   "if the matter is brought before the PCC the...   Jul 27 2011, 02:23 PM
vectistim   The law might specify where the buck stops with th...   Jul 27 2011, 02:11 PM
Barry Williams   "There might then be a fighting chance that t...   Jul 27 2011, 03:02 PM
Swell Box   "There might then be a fighting chance that ...   Jul 27 2011, 03:18 PM
Barry Williams   [quote name='Barry Williams' post='1078860' date=...   Jul 27 2011, 04:09 PM
anacrusis   :D How good to see that politics is politics, wher...   Jul 27 2011, 03:14 PM
sbhoa   Only skimmed through this so may have missed somet...   Jul 27 2011, 05:01 PM
mel2   I'm currently awaiting a reply to my reply to ...   Jul 27 2011, 05:46 PM
Stephen Barber   I hate to see mention of the "offender" ...   Jul 28 2011, 09:53 AM
Swell Box   I hate to see mention of the "offender...   Jul 28 2011, 11:34 AM
Stephen Barber   Stephen; this is all very good advice, but it onl...   Jul 28 2011, 12:17 PM
dotted quaver   I'm currently awaiting a reply to my reply to...   Jul 28 2011, 10:44 PM
jod   In my experience, until recently the best hymns fo...   Jul 28 2011, 10:18 AM
mel2   Thanks, jod, my original question was about which ...   Jul 28 2011, 12:06 PM
Barry Williams   "Canon B20 does have a get out clause - the A...   Jul 28 2011, 12:25 PM
Barry Williams   "Anyone know how to convince PCC that this an...   Jul 29 2011, 08:56 AM
Swell Box   "Anyone know how to convince PCC that this a...   Jul 29 2011, 09:07 AM
mel2   "Anyone know how to convince PCC that this a...   Jul 29 2011, 02:20 PM
jod   "Anyone know how to convince PCC that this ...   Jul 29 2011, 07:46 PM
A.U.K   Whilst I stand by what I say..with hindsight I did...   Jul 29 2011, 09:39 PM
jod   As I intimated, my family has also been the victim...   Aug 1 2011, 08:26 AM
Swell Box   Getting right back on topic, we had a very interes...   Aug 8 2011, 09:19 AM
soccermom   However, the congregational response to these hy...   Aug 8 2011, 10:51 AM
Swell Box   [quote name='Swell Box' post='1082078' date='Aug ...   Aug 8 2011, 11:18 AM
mrbouffant   Vicaress: I agree, we should change it. (There wa...   Aug 8 2011, 11:15 AM
jod   Vicaress: I agree, we should change it. (There w...   Aug 8 2011, 12:38 PM
jod   You proved my point perfectly. Just because the c...   Aug 8 2011, 09:49 AM
fsharpminor   In the 50's and 60's when I was brought up...   Aug 8 2011, 11:01 AM
Swell Box   There is one aspect of this story that I find quit...   Aug 8 2011, 01:35 PM
Rogue Organist   (New poster so apologies for dredging up old threa...   Aug 24 2011, 08:27 AM
Vox Humana   I find the best strategy in such situations is the...   Aug 29 2011, 08:00 AM
carol*piano   You could try the following: O Jesus, I have pro...   Aug 29 2011, 10:51 AM
Dulcet   You could try the following: O Jesus, I have pr...   Sep 1 2011, 08:17 PM
jod   [quote name='carol*piano' post='1086525' date='Au...   Sep 5 2011, 12:51 PM
Stephen Barber   ..must say it is an improvement on Camberwell...   Sep 7 2011, 08:56 AM
Barry Williams   [quote name='jod' post='1087924' date='Sep 5 2011...   Sep 8 2011, 12:25 PM
Swell Box   "[i]....each week I see people cringe as th...   Sep 9 2011, 02:51 PM
Barry Williams   "[i]How low will these people stoop to get th...   Aug 24 2011, 10:00 AM
mel2   I enjoyed Rogue Organist's guerilla tactic :...   Aug 24 2011, 10:30 AM
Barry Williams   "Barry, about the CCLI arrangements: if a ser...   Aug 24 2011, 11:26 AM
mrbouffant   If the hymn books are used permission only needs ...   Aug 24 2011, 01:16 PM
mel2   Thank you for the clarification Barry. :)   Aug 24 2011, 12:06 PM
Barry Williams   In law charges are exigible. The Performing Right...   Aug 24 2011, 03:59 PM
principal4   In law charges are exigible. 'Exigible...   Aug 24 2011, 05:51 PM
Aquarelle   Off topic but I have just read through this thread...   Aug 27 2011, 04:23 PM
vectistim   I think the best one was a confirmation service I ...   Aug 30 2011, 02:24 PM
mel2   the organist didn't recognise any of the pote...   Aug 30 2011, 03:37 PM
madbassoonist   the organist didn't recognise any of the pot...   Aug 31 2011, 07:14 PM
fsharpminor   We also had 'There is a green hill far away...   Aug 30 2011, 03:15 PM
Martin.Walters   I play every week for a church(es), normally given...   Aug 30 2011, 05:58 PM
fsharpminor   A good thing to do would be to change the words ...   Aug 30 2011, 06:46 PM
Rogue Organist   A good thing to do would be to change the words o...   Sep 5 2011, 06:53 PM
dotted quaver   You could try the following: O Jesus, I have pr...   Aug 30 2011, 07:38 PM
mel2   ^^^ I'm obliged to you, madbassoonist. -Sorr...   Aug 31 2011, 08:35 PM
Swell Box   ^^^ I'm obliged to you, madbassoonist. -Sor...   Aug 31 2011, 08:36 PM
fsharpminor   ^^^ I'm obliged to you, madbassoonist. -Sor...   Aug 31 2011, 08:39 PM
Vox Humana   Please let there be ONE other person in the world ...   Aug 31 2011, 08:52 PM
fsharpminor   I have never played 'All My Hope on God is fou...   Sep 5 2011, 01:22 PM
Barry Williams   Whilst 'Michael' is a sitirring tune, ...   Sep 5 2011, 04:46 PM
Barry Williams   Whenever I am called upon to play items such as ...   Sep 5 2011, 07:12 PM
Stephen Barber   Many are now 'classics', on the lines of...   Sep 5 2011, 09:04 PM
Barry Williams   I have looked at my notes, which I should have don...   Sep 5 2011, 09:58 PM
klavierkat   Hello organists! I've never looked at the...   Sep 5 2011, 10:15 PM
randomsabreur   I'm a relatively recent churchgoer- started go...   Sep 9 2011, 07:23 PM
mel2   We're very lucky that our church (sadly not...   Sep 9 2011, 08:29 PM
Barry Williams   "..although the town is pretty traditional - ...   Sep 9 2011, 07:50 PM
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