Hymns and the Visitor, Any suggestions? Options

[Swell Box]

I hear that Jeremy Vine will be discussing hymn singing in Welsh churches today (Tuesday 20th September) after 1.00 pm (on Radio 2).

SB

[Swell Box]

I hear that Jeremy Vine will be discussing hymn singing in Welsh churches today (Tuesday 20th September) after 1.00 pm (on Radio 2).

SB

To follow up on the above, Jeremy Vine interviewed a Welsh Priest, Fr. Paul Bigmore, who said that communal hymn singing was important to communities, and was at risk of dying out.

Extracts form several well known hymns were played, together with a version of Dear Lord and Father of Mankind. Jeremy seemed very clued up on this, so I suspect he may be a regular churchgoer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There were many comments form listeners complaining about modern hymns, and saying how much they enjoyed the traditional hymns. Jeremy read out a list of ten top hymns, complied by Mission Praise, which was rather predictable. Only one listener said that she didn't like traditional hymns (probably related to a music group leader). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

It wasn't quite what I expected, but it was interesting all the same.

However, this BBC article says rather more, and looks very interesting. Let's just hope it spreads across the border into England.

SB

[mel2]

I can't believe it happened again!

The church was filling up with St John Ambulance, TA, British Legion and the local Methodists as well as our home congregation and there on the organ stool was a suspicious bright pink post-it note with a list of numbers different from the ones I had been working on.

The poor Methodist minister got the thick end of my wrath (although I made it clear I didn't blame him - it was the Lay reader again) Vicar is on sick leave which makes my decision to quit a bit difficult to carry out but I think I have wasted enough precious evenings working on music that is unceremoniously ditched at the last minute.

If it hadn't been a major service with a large number of guests present I wouldn't have stayed to play.
I know many others have given up church posts owing to irreconcilable differences with clergy but ironically, I haven't a problem with the clergy.

I'm trying not to feel guilty about deserting my post just before Advent and Christmas. What's that saying about hands, buckets of water and no one being indispensible? Now is the chance for another aspiring organist to step forward - they can have my stipend back next pay day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[mrbouffant]

All power to your organist's elbows, mel2. Hope you find yourself a nice, well run parish to enjoy your talents, soon (if this previous position hasn't put you off entirely!)..

[jch48]

Sorry to hear you've been mucked about and that your dedication does not seem to be appreciated and that others appear not to understand what it's like to do what we do.
I hope you find other opportunites to make music and be valued.

[mel2]

I'm grateful for the words of support and am still dithering, which is irritating me because I can't do with people who make idle threats hoping that someone will soothe and cajole them into not carrying out the threat.

A wise colleague advised me to target my actions on the single person causing the problem, and that is what I have done, in the form of a very sharp letter. A copy of the letter with a covering note (plus get -well wishes!) has been sent to the vicar on his bed of pain and I have yet to receive a reply from either, but it is early days yet.

I wouldn't apply for another post, should the worst happen, because I didn't actually ask for this one; I would hope I wouldn't be barred from the instrument and I should carry on with my organ studies.

[saxophile]

I'm grateful for the words of support and am still dithering, which is irritating me because I can't do with people who make idle threats hoping that someone will soothe and cajole them into not carrying out the threat.

A wise colleague advised me to target my actions on the single person causing the problem, and that is what I have done, in the form of a very sharp letter. A copy of the letter with a covering note (plus get -well wishes!) has been sent to the vicar on his bed of pain and I have yet to receive a reply from either, but it is early days yet.

I wouldn't apply for another post, should the worst happen, because I didn't actually ask for this one; I would hope I wouldn't be barred from the instrument and I should carry on with my organ studies.

Sincere sympathy for the fact that you've been mucked about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) This kind of thing really shouldn't happen.

However, when I went back to the start of this thread, I saw that you'd said you were going to put up a notice (or otherwise make it clear to all concerned) that changes to hymns had to be with you by the previous Tuesday, to enable you and the choir to practise them properly so as to be able to lead the music in the worship to an appropriate standard.

Has that been implemented? If so, in your shoes I have to say I would - politely but firmly - have refused to accept the changes (especially since they were from the lay reader and not the minister - and as Barry Williams has pointed out, only the minister has the RIGHT to choose the hymns), corrected the hymn board if the person in question had had the effrontery to put up the different ones, corrected the announcement if said person had persisted in announcing the revised numbers in the service, and played what was originally set....

[mel2]

[However, when I went back to the start of this thread, I saw that you'd said you were going to put up a notice (or otherwise make it clear to all concerned) that changes to hymns had to be with you by the previous Tuesday, to enable you and the choir to practise them properly so as to be able to lead the music in the worship to an appropriate standard.

Has that been implemented? If so, in your shoes I have to say I would - politely but firmly - have refused to accept the changes (especially since they were from the lay reader and not the minister - and as Barry Williams has pointed out, only the minister has the RIGHT to choose the hymns), corrected the hymn board if the person in question had had the effrontery to put up the different ones, corrected the announcement if said person had persisted in announcing the revised numbers in the service, and played what was originally set....

I don't think a notice was put up, and the fact that it has happened again after I kicked up such as fuss with the vicar before, leads me to wonder exactly what, if anything, was said to the Reader. They could just have chortled, man to man, along the lines of "you know what these women are like....try and let her know a bit sooner...." either way, not a syllable was relayed to me before this important service, and that is why I was so annoyed.

I had no way of insisting on the original hymns because he had had service sheets printed including the words to the hymns - he's very good at covering all bases. Coup de grace? Fait accompli? The French must have a word for it (merde?!) At least the censor didn't get that one! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Toying with the idea of refusing to play at any service he is taking, but that looks a bit vindictive

[Barry Toner]

Mel,

You have my sincere sympathies.

Your gender should be irrelevant to the fact (note, fact) that your official position has been disregarded and your professional opinion and expertise has been ignored. This was not a simple oversight of not telling you of changes - it was a deliberate ploy to achieve the service the Reader wanted by underhand means. Words inserted in a pre-produced service sheet takes time and effort, so you could (and should) have been consulted (consulted, not informed) several days before the service, not by an impersonal note on the organ bench just before the service. I am not surprised you are livid.

In negotiating terms, this is the Sudetenland tactic (think of Czechoslovakia in 1938): take the action and then negotiate from a position of the strength of a fait accompli. It has worked as a short term tactic in that the reader got the hymns he wanted for Sunday's service. As a strategy, it has long term consequences as he may not have anyone at all to play for his next service. If you do nothing, he will do it again, as Hitler did following his success in Czechoslovakia.

I was involved many years ago in a church situation where two viewpoints about music in worship did not meet and enormous pressure was brought to bear to change and conform. There are similarities with your position in that one person involved appeared totally incapable of understanding and respecting the position of another section of the church. We ended up by leaving that church, but it hurt enormously at the time and still hurts to this day. These situations matter to those involved because what you are doing is trying to worship to the glory of God, but it appears not to be recognised, appreciated or respected.

With that background, I would advise either (a) immediate resignation outright, referring back to previous e-mails in July (you would have a very good case for any such resignation being considered a ?constructive dismissal? not requiring a period of notice but being entitled to payment for a period of notice ? I am sure Barry Williams could advise in more detail), or (b) loud and vociferous complaint about the treatment of last Sunday, with a statement that any future last minute changes of this sort will result in a refusal to play at the service, with the responsibility for such lack of music resting with the ministry team, not the music makers. If you do nothing, it invites those taking services to make late changes again and again, as there have been no serious consequences following previous instances of this tactic. At the moment, you are being treated like a doormat. People of that sort do not easily change their opinions or their habits of action: you will get further occurrences of this sort if you do nothing.

With sincere best wishes,

B-T

[Barry Williams]

If the situation were such that one could be reasonably confident of proving employment status, (which these days is not too difficult,) then constructive dismissal is a possibility. But the threshold for that is very high and it might not be achieved. Litigation is best avoided.

Refusing to play at any service when the offender is officiating is certainly a possibility, but could lead to dismissal.

Give the incumbent a copy of Canon B20 (I can send you one) and explain that the unsatisfactory situation stopped last Sunday, forever.

Please be assured that you are not the only one to be treated like this. However, it will get to you. I agree with Barry Toner. You are being treated like a doormat and it will continue unless you break the pattern. Feel free to call me. If you need my number send a PM.

Barry Williams

[BerkshireMum]

I really don't understand why you could not have been told about the hymn changes a few days before the service. It's pure rudeness to leave a post-it note on the organ. Our church has a Thursday deadline for printing the order of service, and the organist is always given the hymns (by the lady who does the printing )on Thursday evening at latest. OK, it doesn't give a lot of time to practise, but it's a great deal better than a post-it note on the Sunday!

As is usual in Methodist churches, we do still sometimes have a change of hymn on the day, but rarely more than one change, and I always feel that they can't expect the hymn to be perfect in those circumstances, so I don't worry about it. What is more annoying is when the preacher has sermonised for far too long, so decides to cut one of the hymns altogether! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I would have been inclined to speak to the Lay Reader yourself and explain politely that you like a few days notice of the hymns in order to give of your best. It's possible that he has no idea of the difficulties involved for you; many non-pianists think that it's no harder for the organist to play a hymn at sight than for them to e.g. read from the Bible at sight. Anyway, it sounds as though you have left him in no doubt! But the trouble with sharp letters is that they are capable of injuring both sender and recipient. I hope the situation works out OK for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thereThere.gif)

[mel2]

When I came home this evening there was a letter waiting for me, and I opened it to find a fulsome apology from the Reader and a promise to make sure I am informed well in advance of any future changes to the set hymn list.

A nice gesture which reassures me that my own letter made my case plain.

I'm just fighting a niggle in the back of my mind that is saying something like "not good enough - they should not be changed without agreeing with you first!"

But this is probably not the time for intransigence, especially as Vicar is likely to be out of action for some time to come.

[mrbouffant]

I guess mel2, you just need to suck it and see, given the "olive branch" extended...

[Barry Williams]

When I came home this evening there was a letter waiting for me, and I opened it to find a fulsome apology from the Reader and a promise to make sure I am informed well in advance of any future changes to the set hymn list.

A nice gesture which reassures me that my own letter made my case plain.

I'm just fighting a niggle in the back of my mind that is saying something like "not good enough - they should not be changed without agreeing with you first!"

But this is probably not the time for intransigence, especially as Vicar is likely to be out of action for some time to come.

It might be helpful to send a charming and gracious reply setting out the very latest time when hymns can be changed, without causing chaos to those who have spent an evening preparing them, as singers, and probably another evening for the organist. If the situation has arisen through a lack of understandng and the apology is genuine, this will do no harm. If the letter is merely appeasement your charming and gracious response will be the foundation for a further step, should it be needed.

Barry Williams

[mel2]

^^
I shall do this, dropping in the words "discussion of changes to the list". I would dearly like to take the heat out of the situation and dropping the tone from sfz to mp in a letter will make our next meeting more comfortable.