Want son to give up flute, because he won't practice! Options

[MNW]

No improvement on this front. He has been learning for around four years and was due to sit grade 5 this term but I postponed it. He practices for under 15 mins 5 days a week at boarding school and rarely brings it home in the holidays. He moans if I talk about him practicing but he doesn't want to give it up. I'm really confused because I don't want to take away the pleasure he gets when he's involved in school music groups but I feel he needs to play his part and can't expect me to keep coughing up for lessons when he does the absolute minimum. He's actually very musical and had he practiced more I know he would have achieved much more, not that this matters, but it adds to the frustration.

[Tixylix]

If he enjoys the music groups would he be able to continue taking part even if he wasn't actually having lessons? Maybe having a break from lessons and just playing for fun would restart his interest, as if he's enjoying the music groups it may boost him to want to get better and restart lessons being willing to put some work in. I understand your frustration that he isn't progressing as fast as you feel he could be but evidently he is making some progress so presumably he is getting something out of the lessons, maybe flute just isn't a major priority for him and he doesn't want to push through the grades because it feels too much like 'work'.

[RoseRodent]

Is it directly linked that if he stops lessons he'll have to stop going to orchesta? I know sometimes with fee-paying school places you do buy a package of music, and particularly with something like flute where there are very few desks available and they may want to change him for a pupil who is making more progress. But if he enjoys making music with others and wants to give up having individual lessons and those things are not tied into each other then why could he not carry on with the bits he likes while getting rid of the bits he doesn't? Perhaps he just finds solo work boring. If he stops having lessons he may actually play even more than before. Would it be tricky to get the lessons back if you stop them, is there a waiting list or is it just a case of going back to asking for them and paying for them if he regrets dropping lessons? You could discuss it as a break rather than a giving up, it might be easier that way.

[MNW]

I actually thought I posted this in the parent's section. It is possible to make a genuine mistake but thanks for the reprimand! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Scooby Doo]

I think the key points are that although he does very little practice, he does do some while he is at school, and he wants to keep going. The conspicuous musical achievements of his brother must surely have some impact on his feelings about the whole thing, too. As others have pointed out, perhaps he is happy as an ensemble player, rather than a soloist. In which case, perhaps you could get him interested in some chamber music for flute and other instruments if you feel he needs another challenge?

[soccermom]

I agree with much of what has already been said.

Depending on how much he still needs to do to be ready for the exam, I'd either encourage him to pull out the stops and get it done next term or leave off exams altogether for a while. Then I'd try and change tack for a bit and ask his teacher to do something completely different for a term or so. Playing duets with the teacher? jazz? Trying out lots of short pieces rather than working on perfecting something for an exam? Discovering new composers or playing lots of pieces by his favourite? Trying out new techniques? Basically, as much as whatever your son likes doing best so that he wants to practise rather than find it a chore. Keep up with orchestra obviously.

If that doesn't work perhaps say that he will have to stop lessons unless he does at least x minutes practice a day. Do you have any way of knowing how much practice he does at school other than by him telling you? Of course - as with all threats - there's no point in saying that unless you mean it. Both my daughters have gone through phases of doing minimal amounts of practice on one of more instrument from time to time. Annoying though it can be, I'd rather that than they gave up altogether!

[sbhoa]

I may have misread some of your posts but the impression I have is that your other son does even less practice than that. If that is the case then regardless of the apparent difference in speed of progress it my seem a little unfair that his brother 'gets away with' doing less practice without any suggestion of discontinuing lessons.

[MNW]

Thank you for all your advice and I agree in principle with many points, especially the ensemble work. His current school set up is that he will not be able to participate in anything if he doesn't have a lesson.

My issue is that I want him to meet me half way. Why should I fork out tuition fees if he won't practice?

Other son tends to do around 30 mins practice (up to an hour if he has an exam) when he is at home which is usually 4 days a week. This will change to 2 hours 40mins over 6 days when he goes to Purcell, so he does practice more than DS1. If he can't practice it is because he is in choir rehearsals/Evensong so it is still music practice.

[Flossie]

A lot of flautists go through a plateau at around grade 5-6 and it can take a while to come out of this (sometimes a year or more). This phase can be very discouraging and demotivating because it is difficult to see progress, and I suspect that this may be where your son is at the moment. If he's still enjoying his playing then I wouldn't worry about it. The orchestral playing will help keep his embouchure etc in shape, and sooner or later things will probably click into place for him at which point lessons and practice will become more enjoyable again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MNW]

A lot of flautists go through a plateau at around grade 5-6 and it can take a while to come out of this (sometimes a year or more). This phase can be very discouraging and demotivating because it is difficult to see progress, and I suspect that this may be where your son is at the moment. If he's still enjoying his playing then I wouldn't worry about it. The orchestral playing will help keep his embouchure etc in shape, and sooner or later things will probably click into place for him at which point lessons and practice will become more enjoyable again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think I need to have a good chat with him. I'm not very impressed with the current set-up. It seems that all they do is work towards exams. When I mentioned skipping one and moving onto a higher grade a couple of years ago the director of music had never heard of such a thing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I've decided he won't sit grade 5 and hopefully not sit anymore unless he gets to grade 8 or has a burning desire to do so.

[Flossie]

A lot of flautists go through a plateau at around grade 5-6 and it can take a while to come out of this (sometimes a year or more). This phase can be very discouraging and demotivating because it is difficult to see progress, and I suspect that this may be where your son is at the moment. If he's still enjoying his playing then I wouldn't worry about it. The orchestral playing will help keep his embouchure etc in shape, and sooner or later things will probably click into place for him at which point lessons and practice will become more enjoyable again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think I need to have a good chat with him. I'm not very impressed with the current set-up. It seems that all they do is work towards exams. When I mentioned skipping one and moving onto a higher grade a couple of years ago the director of music had never heard of such a thing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I've decided he won't sit grade 5 and hopefully not sit anymore unless he gets to grade 8 or has a burning desire to do so.

There is plenty of good grade 5-6 repertoire for flute. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There is a shift at this stage towards playing 'real' repertoire, which is great in some respects but also adds to some of the frustrations associated with the grade 5-6 plateau. Many of the repertoire pieces introduced at this stage e.g. Handel sonatas, Gluck Minuet and Dance of the Blessed Spirits, Faure Sicilliene can be managed at a basic level by a player of your son's standard, but are difficult to play really well. It stops being a case of just learning the notes and fingerings and becomes much more of a challenge in terms of technique and expression. It is easy to know 'how' you want the piece to sound, and to know in principle how to do that, but you very frustratingly can't quite get what you want out of the flute (but people don't normally recongnise this as the problem at the time and so get discouraged, don't feel like practicing etc). This is also the stage when player-flute relationships get more individual and sometimes you can get something that works really well for one player and not another. A lot of very gradual shifting and experimenting with slightly different ways of doing things gets done, and it can seem like you aren't actually getting anywhere - until you suddenly get out of the plateau.

[Sunrise]

There is plenty of good grade 5-6 repertoire for flute. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There is a shift at this stage towards playing 'real' repertoire, which is great in some respects but also adds to some of the frustrations associated with the grade 5-6 plateau. Many of the repertoire pieces introduced at this stage e.g. Handel sonatas, Gluck Minuet and Dance of the Blessed Spirits, Faure Sicilliene can be managed at a basic level by a player of your son's standard, but are difficult to play really well. It stops being a case of just learning the notes and fingerings and becomes much more of a challenge in terms of technique and expression. It is easy to know 'how' you want the piece to sound, and to know in principle how to do that, but you very frustratingly can't quite get what you want out of the flute (but people don't normally recongnise this as the problem at the time and so get discouraged, don't feel like practicing etc). This is also the stage when player-flute relationships get more individual and sometimes you can get something that works really well for one player and not another. A lot of very gradual shifting and experimenting with slightly different ways of doing things gets done, and it can seem like you aren't actually getting anywhere - until you suddenly get out of the plateau.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that is where I am at the moment, doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere, but when a piece gets pulled out from a while back (like last year's Christmas band music), I can hear the difference. But the day to day stuff can feel a bit soul destroying....

[notmusimum]

There is plenty of good grade 5-6 repertoire for flute. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There is a shift at this stage towards playing 'real' repertoire, which is great in some respects but also adds to some of the frustrations associated with the grade 5-6 plateau. Many of the repertoire pieces introduced at this stage e.g. Handel sonatas, Gluck Minuet and Dance of the Blessed Spirits, Faure Sicilliene can be managed at a basic level by a player of your son's standard, but are difficult to play really well. It stops being a case of just learning the notes and fingerings and becomes much more of a challenge in terms of technique and expression. It is easy to know 'how' you want the piece to sound, and to know in principle how to do that, but you very frustratingly can't quite get what you want out of the flute (but people don't normally recongnise this as the problem at the time and so get discouraged, don't feel like practicing etc). This is also the stage when player-flute relationships get more individual and sometimes you can get something that works really well for one player and not another. A lot of very gradual shifting and experimenting with slightly different ways of doing things gets done, and it can seem like you aren't actually getting anywhere - until you suddenly get out of the plateau.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that is where I am at the moment, doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere, but when a piece gets pulled out from a while back (like last year's Christmas band music), I can hear the difference. But the day to day stuff can feel a bit soul destroying....

We've had a similar situation with flute and possibly other instruments but flute was first and that's always the hardest situation to deal with.

[RoseRodent]

I think it's important to try to establish what he does and doesn't like about the playing he enjoys. It may be because he prefers ensemble playing but it may also be that he can blag it through orchestra/band and doesn't need to practice, perhaps the material is sufficiently easy or he is not really heard through the texture so he can just turn up, play the music and then go on his way and stuff the music back in a bag for another full week.

If he's wanting to cruise along for a while then that's a different strategy for moving forward than if he is happy to push forward in an ensemble format. If the school is really obsessed with exams, he likes ensemble playing and you and he are happy to make the compromise of still doing exams but changing tack, exams exist for ensembles too. He's the perfect grade level for ABRSM Primary Ensemble, though perhaps the teacher will have kittens at the idea of preparing for a less familiar syllabus: too bad! Ensemble gives an opportunity for other keen candidates to get two certificates in one sitting and provides an additional 17 minutes of examining work for a special visit should you have to "sell" the idea to the school.

If he's looking to take the pressure off for a while rather than constantly go forward with the next technical challenge there are all kinds of suggestions but honestly it doesn't sound like that's the right teacher/teaching environment to support it. Wider repertoire doesn't seem to be part of their system, and even if you say no to more grades, those who teach grade, grade, grade as if that's all that matters generally find it tricky to pull back from that attitude, and even with the grades themselves off the table this teacher may still be very pushy. Do you have much opportunity for communication with the teacher or is it all very arm's length?

[Pixie*Porsche]

Hmmm a lot of kids lose some motivation at some point! It might make it harder for you to try and claw back some with him being away at boarding school, could you perhaps have a word with whoever supervises music practise to make sure he has some goals to work towards and is getting something out of practise. Perhaps, even finding a duet partner?