Performance Anxiety Options

[Dugazon]

Corenfa, I just thought about the amateur vs professional issue. It is of course true that the implications for a professional are "bigger" with regards to livelihood - if you mess up too often, you might lose or never get the job. In a way though, this applies to any job (it's just that not every job entails public performance, but anxiety issues can probably hit you everywhere).

I believe though that the solution to the problem is essentially the same. A professional usually also has routine strategies to deal with mistakes, and when everything is "normal", mistakes won't catch them out - they just keep going and don't dwell on them DURING their performance. Only if that balance is off (or was never there in the first place), problems arise, and this can indeed happen at any point of your career, sparked by both internal or external factors.

The question "What's the worst that can happen?" applies to amateur and professional alike. The fact you don't do it as a job will not necessarily take the pressure off, neither will the fact you DO it professionally put massive pressure on. It's a very individual thing, that's why (imho) finding out about the root of anxiety can be so helpful.

Edit: Roseau, we posted at the same time. I agree with a lot of what you've written.

[corenfa]

Dugazon, that's really interesting to hear. I never thought of it that way. I program computers for a living but it never occurred to me to get nervous about that; it's just what I do and I do indeed always have a backup plan. Make no mistake there's times where if I screw up I could end up costing someone a load of money, so there could indeed be consequences but I know how to put safeguards in place so that has never happened.

Another thought I had (sorry I'm really waffling a bit I know) is that a lot of people often seem to imbue musical ability with some sort of magical aura. I used to think this way and think that I must automatically have to work really really hard at it because I didn't have the natural magical powers to just be able to sit down and play. I know that I used to make it in my head out to be a lot harder than I really was and concentrate extra hard on every detail. This could go wrong in two ways; one was that i would miss the big picture, and the other was that even if it didn't go wrong in a big way, my perception would be that it did because I was hyper-aware.

Also, I now am a firm believer in not performing anything I'm not extremely well prepared for (where possible). I sometimes underestimate just how hard it is to learn something.

[VH2]

What works for me is massive over-learning of the pieces I am to play, and frequent, regular public performances.

Rationalisation, meditation, psychology don't help. Nothing else helps.

[pianoeater]

What works for me is massive over-learning of the pieces I am to play, and frequent, regular public performances.

Rationalisation, meditation, psychology don't help. Nothing else helps.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Totally agree with you VH2. Although I think you can never over-learn a piece of music. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Actually I think if you haven't 'overlearnt' a piece you've hardly begun to learn at all.

I know that for myself, any nerves are due COMPLETELY to the feeling of being under prepared. Whenever I know beyond doubt that I've learnt a piece inside-out, back-to-front and upsidedown nerves become a non issue.

I guess the problem is a bit more complicated for people predisposed to nervousness, but thorough and pedantic preparation is a good place to start. Proper breathing cannot be too highly praised either.

[jod]

Now I know what my problem is with the piano. I have always been told why I can't play the piano, and like a fool I've believed the things people have said because the people saying them were, at the time, people I should have trusted to tell me good things.

Well last exam I was only 8 marks away from a pass and took it under difficult circumstances. I need to say I can rather than I can't. Think, 'what do you mean, you always say that, like trying to bring people down do you?' to at least one person and just play.

To the people who believe my hands are too small it is a case of 'oh really, so why have I just got my hands around that!'

To the person who said I would never be any good my response is, 'when you said this I couldn't even attempt that piece - eat your words please!'

Dugazon, that feels so much better, even just writing it down, and mentally saying it to myself!

[Roseau]

I know that for myself, any nerves are due COMPLETELY to the feeling of being under prepared. Whenever I know beyond doubt that I've learnt a piece inside-out, back-to-front and upsidedown nerves become a non issue.

As I said in my earlier post, I'm no longer sure that thorough preparation necessarily helps with nerves for everyone. I had always practised obsessively before performing anything in public believing what people told me about the importance of knowing pieces inside out. However, this creates expectations of being able to play the piece well and, as I think Dugazon first said, wanting to be "perfect" is not a good thing because it sets you up for failure. Perfectionnists worry about not being able to play it perfectly and it is impossible to play something perfectly - even professionals make mistakes!

I didn't deliberately set out to play a piece I didn't know properly in public (in fact I wouldn't have been capable of doing so because I believed so strongly that not knowing a piece was a recipe for being even more nervous than usual) but a combination of circumstances meant that I ended up doing it. And it was one of the most liberating things I have ever done (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I had no expectations whatsoever of NOT making any mistakes but it was a piece I like a lot so I did what my teacher has been telling me to do for years: took a deep breath and decided to enjoy playing it in a room with nice acoustics. Amazingly the adrenalin kicked in in a positive way by creating a sort of heightened concentration which enabled me to play correctly things I had never managed in my lesson (not just my imagination my teacher confirmed it afterwards). The Inner Game of Music does mention something similar about "allowing" yourself to make mistakes, which paradoxically means you don't make them but I had never found just saying to myself "mistakes don't matter" made any difference because subconsciously I knew they did to me.

I am, however, aware that my experience is not really something other people can replicate. I played in another concert in December and I practised that piece almost "to death," since I can't "let" myself not practise a piece before performing, but the positive performance experience in June meant that sub-consciously I believed that I could do it again and I felt excited instead of terrified.

Proper breathing cannot be too highly praised either.

I totally agree about proper breathing. The problem is that this is one of the first things that goes to pot with me when I'm nervous. Once I'd solved the nerves, the breathing sorted itself out whereas all attempts to sort the breathing out in order to overcome the nerves had always failed.

[Blackbird77]

I have a massive issue with nerves - it's caused me to fail exams and in some cases to avoid performing rather than take the risk of being laughed at/being told I'm rubbish/being kicked out for being such a total loser.

Reading "The Musician's Way" made me realise that I'm not alone in feeling the way I do and has some good coping strategies but my wonderful violin teacher has done a lot to help me address my issues, by taking me out of my comfort zone and giving me tools I can use to calm my nerves. I know I put a lot of pressure on myself because I feel I have to prove something and that is one thing that my teacher is trying to undo is this feeling that I'm not worthy to play an instrument. I am not a robot so will never give a faultless performance, I can only do my best but still for me that is not enough.

I recently had to be prescribed beta blockers for an ongoing issue. I've found that they do lessen the physical symptoms and help me stay on an even keel but the side effects are horrible and they don't get rid of the incessant "you're completely useless" that goes round in my head. I'm under guidance from my GP and for the issue they were prescribed for, yes my GP and I have seen an improvement, but they were the last resort.

I'd like to work on building myself the equivalent of a performance "tool kit". Strategies that I can use to help me deal with my nerves in different situations. My teacher gives me motivational notes I can stick on my music and with their help, hopefully I can turn it around. However, this year I have decided that it is time for me to face my fears head on as I'm tired of running away.

[Martin.Walters]

I feel like this is a topic I should be involved in.

Been playing in church for 2and a half years, the first 6months of playing hymns was a nightmare for me.

Frequently my lack of experience and anxiety would over come me and I`d swear not to play again... but I kept working at it and eventually my nerves were ok!

Biggest problem.. thinking "am I going to be good enough"
But soon as I sat at the piano it was as if I was practising again, but with adrenaline!

Then came the solo performances, ~ (Ive only just over come it!)

Id play a piece.. half way through Id feel the nerves! Simply because I started thinking 0,0

My first solution was to build an aggressive like approach to build the adrenaline shouting at my self (mentally)
" I WANT TO ACHIEVE THIS" .. that worked fine.. but I wasnt satisfied it was the right attitude..

I then came across this interview and it brought me so much comfort I feel I have nothing to fear any more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4OJoAI5d5Y

Coupled with that Horowitz interview I have my conclusion set and it works for me!

I still have an aggressive attitude when doing exams. ~ I want the best result I can get!
but for performances.. I have to accept.. I will make mistakes.. accepting this one thing can help alot,
if you expect perfection.. your foolish.

Only with correct practice are you more likely to produce a correct performance.
but never expect a perfect performance.. because you`ll be more likely to make a mess of it.

there are other factors which can contribute to anxiety, ~ you practice more as the performance approaches, you can push yourself over the edge and develop over practice which makes you think your not good enough.
I have faced this, gone back to the pieces of music 2 weeks later and found they sound so much better, the fingers aren't tired the brain isn't stressed.

[sbhoa]

Another thing that used to affect me badly was the "I'm not good enough". Like many people here I had teachers tell me I would never amount to anything. I did also manage to shake that off by thinking: *Who* exactly were you to tell me this? What's that you say- you're still some third-rate band instructor? Why *do* you have this hold over me? I have done so many musical things since then: You are wrong.

For me it's sort of the opposite.
I have teachers and others telling me that I'm much better than I think I am and find that I'm trying hard to live up to that.
I know that this is crazy as obviously I do live up to that or people wouldn't be telling me so....

[Juan Carlos]

Some time ago, I read something about all this being related to how much we need love/approval/admiration from others and, if you ask yourself what it may be that upsets you so much when you make mistakes, etc. I think it all boils down to that plus the rrelated topic of self-esteem and a lot of more3 or less directly associated issues.

[viola-mad]

A big part of it is fear of being 'found out' I think

I know what you mean. I gave up solo performing after getting to a point where I was convinced everyone would know I was a fraud.

I can so relate to this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) It's not rare, and there's even a name for it - google Imposter Syndrome. I try to rationalise it away, by thinking that if I can consistently, convincingly fake my way through really difficult music, then surely the bluffing must take more skill than just being able to play it. And since I have the least amount of skill, then by default I must be able to play it. I once told a good friend this, and I realised how stupid it sounded even as I was speaking. But there's still a significant part of me that believes I'm not as proficient as I've led people to think, and it's only a matter of time before they find out how I've been deceiving them.

Proper breathing cannot be too highly praised either.

My partner is a brass player, and in performance he plays much closer to what he has practised than I do as a string player. I don't think it's coincidence that singers and wind players, who are taught proper controlled breathing techniques, seem to cope better in performance. Must take up a wind instrument. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

... I felt excited instead of terrified.

On a couple of occasions, I have found this has been key to being in a good frame of mind. I found that practising my performance in front of audiences of one or two, several times in the-run up to the big day, made me feel very excited to be able to share my music. I was still nervous, but it felt really good.

Another thing which worked for me once (and once only... so far). During an informal one-to-a-part performance I had made so many mistakes in the first half (including getting so hopelessly lost that one of the others had to tell me where we were up to) that I was seriously worried about what the others were thinking of me. It's all too easy to throw in the towel at that point, but a voice in my head suddenly told me, they'll have more respect for you if you play really well from now on than if you'd never made a mistake in the first place. Suddenly I found some focus from somewhere; the second half was mistake-free and absolutely sparkled. I'm still trying to replicate this experience!

[katica]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/niceThread.gif) Misterioso! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think it is a great idea to gather information on this topic into one thread. Maybe we could collect some links to the other useful threads and you could edit them into your first post to help this be a one-stop continuing thread on the subject.

My apologies for having failed to notice this thread when I started this one on my recent debacle and split the discussion up a bit. I will dutifully continue here...

In case anyone else hasn't seen that one yet, there are a few really useful posts from the likes of roseau (who has a similar anecdote), corenfa (a useful "performance routine" checklist), lottie and anacrusis on the use of betablockers.

In the end, as in Roseau's example, what helps any individual successfully overcome performance anxiety may vary a lot from person to person.

As VH2 points out, there is no substitute for preparation. But in my case I haven't yet enjoyed the sensation of feeling properly prepared and perhaps I never will, even if I've prepared to the point of staleness (that's part of my neurosis). And in the experience I've just been through there was no chance for adequate preparation anyway, given the short timeframe before performance.

In any case, I don't think making mistakes was my problem exactly. More like fear of making them, or of generally sounding dreadful or just not sounding at all. From my experience in other situations, my ability to continue to play reasonably well despite mistakes has improved quite a lot.

Different people also react differently to different situations. I completely agree with Roseau over on the other thread that performing in orchestral situations is very different from performing solo in recital. In fact, in my analysis with my flautist friend I came to the very same conclusion that my nerves had been so much worse because the whole orchestra (or band) could be affected by my solo mess up and also you're much less in control in the orchestral context.

I was also in a situation where, at least for the first two or three days, I was struggling with being an outsider and was really the butt of both rejection and ridicule, along with my two flautist colleagues (to a lesser extent as they didn't have solos and weren't perceived quite so much as displacing locals). Probably most of the time fear of this is not realistic but it was real this time. Or possibly even a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[JME]

[quote name='Roseau' date='Jan 5 2012, 09:48 AM' post='1119849']
[quote name='pianoeater' post='1119809' date='Jan 5 2012, 06:50 AM']
I know that for myself, any nerves are due COMPLETELY to the feeling of being under prepared. Whenever I know beyond doubt that I've learnt a piece inside-out, back-to-front and upsidedown nerves become a non issue.
[/quote]
As I said in my earlier post, I'm no longer sure that thorough preparation necessarily helps with nerves for everyone. I had always practised obsessively before performing anything in public believing what people told me about the importance of knowing pieces inside out. However, this creates expectations of being able to play the piece well and, as I think Dugazon first said, wanting to be "perfect" is not a good thing because it sets you up for failure. Perfectionnists worry about not being able to play it perfectly and it is impossible to play something perfectly - even professionals make mistakes!

Perhaps this is another way of saying the same thing as you but . . . . despite knowing and practicing a piece backwards, I can still come unstuck in an exam or lesson. The funny thing is that it's not just the hard bits that I mess up, it can be the easier parts that I had played time and time again without difficulty, and wasn't expecting to slip up on! It feels like a "rabbit in the headlights" kind of thing; all of a sudden I seem to have a mental blank, and completely forget the familiar finger movements that I thought I knew so well. I'd be interested what the psychology of this is; perhaps I'm trying to think about what I'm playing, rather than letting it flow subconsciously? Any advice gratefully recieved!

Whatever the reason though, it makes nerves even harder to conquer - no matter how much I've practiced, it's difficult to feel confident when I know I might mess up even the easier bits!

[Roseau]

Perhaps this is another way of saying the same thing as you but . . . . despite knowing and practicing a piece backwards, I can still come unstuck in an exam or lesson. The funny thing is that it's not just the hard bits that I mess up, it can be the easier parts that I had played time and time again without difficulty, and wasn't expecting to slip up on!

This is exactly the sort of thing I mean. I know people will say that we're not listening properly at home but I make mistakes in lessons (and performances) that I have never made before. I know I am not imagining that I played it better at home because I usually spend several months working on pieces and my teacher has confirmed that I will play a particular part correctly for weeks and then suddenly and unexpectedly (both from his and my point of view) I will play something wrong.

In answer to your question as to why this should happen, my teacher suggests it is to do with concentration (rather than knowing the piece) and a momentary lapse of concentration because you think you know it. An extreme example of losing concentration was once when I was playing a duet at short notice with him in a concert and there was one syncopated bar that I had never managed to get right prior to playing it in public. He had told me it didn't matter what I did, just to play something and if it wasn't right he would fit in round it. To my great surprise, when we performed I played it correctly. I was so surprised that I stopped playing for a couple of bars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) and then I remembered we hadn't finished the piece and managed to join in again.

He has said, repeatedly that I get too hung up about playing the right notes and that the right notes don't really matter (although he has forbidden me to repeat this to my daughter, whom he also teaches (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ). His view is that if you play confidently and musically you can get away with mistakes.

He also claims (and I can't remember if I've said it on this thread or not) that the real difference between an amateur and a professional is not the mistakes they make (everyone makes mistakes) but in how they deal with them. An amateur is put off by their mistake, thinks about the mistake they have just made and promptly makes another one, the professional is always fully concentrated on what they are actually playing; for a professional what is gone is gone and there's no point thinking about what you've just done wrong.

Whatever the reason though, it makes nerves even harder to conquer - no matter how much I've practiced, it's difficult to feel confident when I know I might mess up even the easier bits!

I think the real challenge is to accept that you are going to make mistakes and probably in unexpected places. You need to convince yourself that there is no such thing as a mistake-free performance.

Going back to Katica's specific orchestral anxiety, an ex-professional player said that with time you learn where you can make mistakes and where you can't. A professional's reputation relies on their mistakes not being heard (note I said not being heard, not not making mistakes) so, depending on the music, sometimes it is better to chose not to play something rather than to play it wrong and you can also sometimes get away with simplifying (ie at a particular point the audience won't notice that the oboe part is completely missing/or missing a few notes but will notice if the oboe plays an out of tune note).

A study of professional orchestral musicians found that the use of betablockers was higher for rehearsals than for performances because the musicians found their fellow musicians remarks particularly stressful. Mistakes are more obvious in rehearsals than performances as the conductor is continually drawing attention to who is doing something wrong.

[katica]

Perhaps this is another way of saying the same thing as you but . . . . despite knowing and practicing a piece backwards, I can still come unstuck in an exam or lesson. The funny thing is that it's not just the hard bits that I mess up, it can be the easier parts that I had played time and time again without difficulty, and wasn't expecting to slip up on!

This is exactly the sort of thing I mean. I know people will say that we're not listening properly at home but I make mistakes in lessons (and performances) that I have never made before. I know I am not imagining that I played it better at home because I usually spend several months working on pieces and my teacher has confirmed that I will play a particular part correctly for weeks and then suddenly and unexpectedly (both from his and my point of view) I will play something wrong.

I do this too. I find it very frustrating how unexpected mistakes suddenly appear in something that appeared to be reasonably secure. And it's even worse when my teacher comes out with something like "I don't understand why you're suddenly making a mistake...". Actually, I'm sure he knows perfectly well. In my case I don't think it's lack of concentration because of over-confidence that I already "have it" but rather over-anxiety, which causes a different sort of lack of concentration.

...He has said, repeatedly that I get too hung up about playing the right notes and that the right notes don't really matter (although he has forbidden me to repeat this to my daughter, whom he also teaches (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ). His view is that if you play confidently and musically you can get away with mistakes.

My teacher is not so hung up on the right notes either. We occasionally get a "careful with the notes" during rehearsals but it's never as ferocious as other remarks... and we are quite often berated with "stop thinking just about the notes...". Easier said than done when you're only on the second read-through! Playing timidly sends him off his rocker, so you can just imagine the steam coming out of his ears with my attempts this week! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

He also claims (and I can't remember if I've said it on this thread or not) that the real difference between an amateur and a professional is not the mistakes they make (everyone makes mistakes) but in how they deal with them. An amateur is put off by their mistake, thinks about the mistake they have just made and promptly makes another one, the professional is always fully concentrated on what they are actually playing; for a professional what is gone is gone and there's no point thinking about what you've just done wrong.

Whatever the reason though, it makes nerves even harder to conquer - no matter how much I've practiced, it's difficult to feel confident when I know I might mess up even the easier bits!

I think the real challenge is to accept that you are going to make mistakes and probably in unexpected places. You need to convince yourself that there is no such thing as a mistake-free performance.

Going back to Katica's specific orchestral anxiety, an ex-professional player said that with time you learn where you can make mistakes and where you can't. A professional's reputation relies on their mistakes not being heard (note I said not being heard, not not making mistakes) so, depending on the music, sometimes it is better to chose not to play something rather than to play it wrong and you can also sometimes get away with simplifying (ie at a particular point the audience won't notice that the oboe part is completely missing/or missing a few notes but will notice if the oboe plays an out of tune note).

A study of professional orchestral musicians found that the use of betablockers was higher for rehearsals than for performances because the musicians found their fellow musicians remarks particularly stressful. Mistakes are more obvious in rehearsals than performances as the conductor is continually drawing attention to who is doing something wrong.

This makes perfect sense to me. I ended up taking betablockers to get through the rehearsals, not the concert! When I've had recitals, the dress rehearsal has always been worse than the actual concert. Last week was worse still as it was so obvious that one or two of my row were just waiting for me to mess up. At least with the recital rehearsals they were a more sympathetic bunch.

I think I am OKish with making mistakes - I have to be as I make enough of them!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) The issue is more about fear of ridicule/rejection, I think (though not only that). I'm getting much better at recovery from mistakes (pretty good, sometimes) and even on knowing where it's OK - at least not serious - to make them. I think the only time I didn't make an actual mistake was in my very first recital piece - and it probably sounded vile anyway. I was fine with skipping one or two bits in Friday's concert, too. I've even been able to laugh at some mistakes: before the second recital I played in, my teacher inveigled me into a couple of drinks (his principal recipe for calming nerves). Evidently I had more than was good for me - I ended up playing quite a lot of the semiquaver passages with the notes in the wrong order! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Relaxation at least had one good effect though - instinct cut in and the notes on the beat were OK, so at least I got the important notes right. In the end it probably didn't sound so bad and possibly not even noticeable to anyone who didn't know the piece. It had my teacher in fits afterwards!

However, even getting better about mistakes doesn't seem to have reduced my fear of making them. Some mental work to do there.

On an aside - one of the flautists who had been rather unpleasant got her comeuppance on the final day. She evidently had her own fit of nerves during dress rehearsal as she failed to play a couple of fairly important passages that she had been playing well all week. And I noticed she missed quite big chunks during the actual performance too. Despite it all, I felt quite sorry for her. I hope it helped her learn and didn't leave her confidence as bashed as mine. My flautist pal and I joked that there is something to be said for being an ordinary mortal who makes mistakes and misses entries quite often - you don't get so floored by it and can pick up again much quicker.