Music vs Music Tech GCSE, - any comments, experiences etc? Options

[linda.ff]

However, I'd be tempted to go for the music GCSE outside school thing to keep your options open.

Yes, of coure you need to do what's best for you, but sadly the fact that music is a subject that pupils can do outside of school does often tend to dilute the GCSE class, resulting in less than uptimal grades for the department and a general aura of "could do better" - very frustrating for the music techer. Mybe those who have already decided music is their career might decide to do it on the gounds that they might find A level music barred to them otherwise (though I'm told that GCSE nowadays is not good preparations for A level), but by and lare, you don't get the best kids opting for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[miffy]

If they offer it at school, isn't it nicer (and more convenient) to do it in school time with school friends?

Why is GCSE not good preparation for A level, Linda?

[saxophile]

Just been to school options evening. It turns out that Son No.1 can (and almost certainly will) do a music tech intensive qualification in a single year (Yr 9), which then means that the choice when it comes to GCSE is any 2 out of history, geography and music.

Difficult one. The music teacher seemed to suggest (without actually saying as much) that it might be possible to do music as an additional subject, given the level already reached: it would be the composition element alone which would really be "new" stuff. He also made the point that it can be difficult to get top grades in music GCSE because of (effectively) the subjectivity involved in the assessment process.

I think we will probably investigate the evening course option: it would almost certainly be with some of the kids he already knows from Music Centre, so socially it should be fine (of the 3 high schools in town, either 1 or 2 no longer offer GCSE music at all, which is why the Sixth Form college has started offering the course, and the Music Centre draws on all 3 schools). It is also Son No.1's trumpet teacher who is involved in teaching the course, so we know the quality of the teaching should be good.

Thanks for the responses - this is all very much new territory for us!

[notmusimum]

I hope it works out well for your son and I'm sure it will.

FWIW my advice would be encourage him to listen to as much music as possible and to think about it. The listening paper is probably the most challenging aspect of the paper. If he goes for familiar instruments he may not find the composition that difficult.

[saxophile]

I hope it works out well for your son and I'm sure it will.

FWIW my advice would be encourage him to listen to as much music as possible and to think about it. The listening paper is probably the most challenging aspect of the paper. If he goes for familiar instruments he may not find the composition that difficult.

Thanks! The listening to music stuff is probably the area he is weakest on when it comes to practical exams, so I can see he would need to put some work in on that.

I also need to find out whether it is possible to do music at A level round here if you haven't done GCSE first....

[linda.ff]

If they offer it at school, isn't it nicer (and more convenient) to do it in school time with school friends?

Oh, I quite agree. Unfortunately so many pupils - and the parents, I do think they have a say in what's decided - don't seem to be able to see this

Why is GCSE not good preparation for A level, Linda?

As I said "I'm told", by more than one person who takes them on for the A level course. I think - and of course it's not right across the board - that the level of musical literacy they can get away with for GCSE has been found to be inadequate for a good grouding for A level.

[notmusimum]

I hope it works out well for your son and I'm sure it will.

FWIW my advice would be encourage him to listen to as much music as possible and to think about it. The listening paper is probably the most challenging aspect of the paper. If he goes for familiar instruments he may not find the composition that difficult.

Thanks! The listening to music stuff is probably the area he is weakest on when it comes to practical exams, so I can see he would need to put some work in on that.

I also need to find out whether it is possible to do music at A level round here if you haven't done GCSE first....

Emsoboe borrowed lots of her piano teachers CDs. I'd also totally recommend getting the course/revision booklets for whichever exam board your son is likely to take.

Please check that your son can take the exam at the night school or that school will allow him to do the work in school under controlled conditions. I am fairly certain you can't enter exams at two centres.

As I said "I'm told", by more than one person who takes them on for the A level course. I think - and of course it's not right across the board - that the level of musical literacy they can get away with for GCSE has been found to be inadequate for a good grouding for A level.

My daughter is doing A level at the moment and I'm certain the GCSE experience even if not directly relevant has helped. Not sure how much as she had two years music education outside of school which has given her different experiences.

[BerkshireMum]

Why is GCSE not good preparation for A level, Linda?

As I said "I'm told", by more than one person who takes them on for the A level course. I think - and of course it's not right across the board - that the level of musical literacy they can get away with for GCSE has been found to be inadequate for a good grouding for A level.

Things have probably altered in the 6 years since my son took GCSE music, but at that time the
GCSE focussed on a very broad range of musical genres - world music, pop, jazz, musical theatre etc - with classical music just a small part of that. There was little need even to read music, as compositions were done on the computer and performance was at about grade 3 level.

At A-level, however, the focus was very different - mostly very classical, with Bach chorales and intensive study of one or two classical works. The recital needed at least grade 6 skills, and preferably grade 8 if you were to have any chance of getting an A. The composition was much more extensive than at GCSE level. My son felt that the only part of the GCSE which was useful for A-level was composition, as he would have had no experience of that otherwise. My daughter did AS Music without ever having done GCSE, and did very well on her composition anyway.

The feeling I got was that GCSE music was tailored to those who liked music but had never had instrumental lessons, who mostly played electric guitar, or a drum kit, or sang, and who went on to study Music Technology at A-level with the aim of getting into the popular music industry. A-level music was tailored to those who wanted to do classical music, who played an instrument or sang classical items, and who might well study music at university or conservatoire. Hence GCSE was not great preparation for A-level music.

[jpiano]

Why is GCSE not good preparation for A level, Linda?

As I said "I'm told", by more than one person who takes them on for the A level course. I think - and of course it's not right across the board - that the level of musical literacy they can get away with for GCSE has been found to be inadequate for a good grouding for A level.

Things have probably altered in the 6 years since my son took GCSE music, but at that time the
GCSE focussed on a very broad range of musical genres - world music, pop, jazz, musical theatre etc - with classical music just a small part of that. There was little need even to read music, as compositions were done on the computer and performance was at about grade 3 level.

At A-level, however, the focus was very different - mostly very classical, with Bach chorales and intensive study of one or two classical works. The recital needed at least grade 6 skills, and preferably grade 8 if you were to have any chance of getting an A. The composition was much more extensive than at GCSE level. My son felt that the only part of the GCSE which was useful for A-level was composition, as he would have had no experience of that otherwise. My daughter did AS Music without ever having done GCSE, and did very well on her composition anyway.

The feeling I got was that GCSE music was tailored to those who liked music but had never had instrumental lessons, who mostly played electric guitar, or a drum kit, or sang, and who went on to study Music Technology at A-level with the aim of getting into the popular music industry. A-level music was tailored to those who wanted to do classical music, who played an instrument or sang classical items, and who might well study music at university or conservatoire. Hence GCSE was not great preparation for A-level music.

Yes, I agree, the experience I've had with teaching piano to GSCE students totally supports what you have just said. Huge variables from one school to another in terms of to whom GSCE music is geared to and the amount of technical knowledge and awareness of styles, and composers. It does feel as if in many cases GCSE is trying to do too many things, cover too much ground thinly- this is just my experience re students I've taught.

[saxophile]

Please check that your son can take the exam at the night school or that school will allow him to do the work in school under controlled conditions. I am fairly certain you can't enter exams at two centres.

I'll definitely check, but I think there must be some way of doing this. The night school course here has been expressly set up to enable GCSE students whose school doesn't offer music to take music GCSE at the same time as their other GCSEs, and if there was some kind of absolute bar on being entered at two centres in the same year, that couldn't be done.

[julio]

If they offer it at school, isn't it nicer (and more convenient) to do it in school time with school friends?

Oh, I quite agree. Unfortunately so many pupils - and the parents, I do think they have a say in what's decided - don't seem to be able to see this

Why is GCSE not good preparation for A level, Linda?

As I said "I'm told", by more than one person who takes them on for the A level course. I think - and of course it's not right across the board - that the level of musical literacy they can get away with for GCSE has been found to be inadequate for a good grouding for A level.

In my experience (two sons who have done GCSE and A level music in the last 5 years) I would agree with this, composition being the only useful part of GCSE for going on to A level. However, following my own experiences of teacher training the A level syllabus can now be interpreted in such a way that knowledge of harmony and theory is becoming less necessary, and I shadowed a teacher in one school where the A level group of drummers and guitarists seemed to do all their composition on Cubase, with very little knowledge necessary.
It makes me despair!

[saxophile]

If they offer it at school, isn't it nicer (and more convenient) to do it in school time with school friends?

Just realised I never responded to this. Just to clarify, whilst it would be more convenient to do via school, Son No.1 effectively only has one option choice for GCSE. Doing music out of school, bearing in mind that he has had a significant headstart over many candidates for the performing and listening parts of the test, would then enable him to use his option in school for another subject. At present, he would have to give up either history or geography - both of which he is good at - in order to do music.

[linda.ff]

If they offer it at school, isn't it nicer (and more convenient) to do it in school time with school friends?

Just realised I never responded to this. Just to clarify, whilst it would be more convenient to do via school, Son No.1 effectively only has one option choice for GCSE. Doing music out of school, bearing in mind that he has had a significant headstart over many candidates for the performing and listening parts of the test, would then enable him to use his option in school for another subject. At present, he would have to give up either history or geography - both of which he is good at - in order to do music.

At the moment it seems to be almost impossible to do GCSE outside of school, unless you can come to some extremely complicated arrangement about coursework, becasue the only way they can trust coursework to be above boardm is to dictate that it's done under controlled conditions in the classroom. One of my piano pupils ws doing GCSE and wasn't even allowed to play me her work in hand; her music teacher didn't even like her discussing it with me (and I think this was part of what caused her or her mother to decide to stop lessons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) Controlled coursework can only be done at specified times in school under the supervision of the teachwr

[saxophile]

At the moment it seems to be almost impossible to do GCSE outside of school, unless you can come to some extremely complicated arrangement about coursework, becasue the only way they can trust coursework to be above boardm is to dictate that it's done under controlled conditions in the classroom. One of my piano pupils ws doing GCSE and wasn't even allowed to play me her work in hand; her music teacher didn't even like her discussing it with me (and I think this was part of what caused her or her mother to decide to stop lessons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) Controlled coursework can only be done at specified times in school under the supervision of the teachwr

I'd heard of this sort of thing; however, this is a proper GCSE course run by the Sixth Form College, so I would assume they must do the controlled coursework during the class sessions (which occur on a "twilight" basis - about 5 pm).

[As an aside though, the more I learn about it, the more the whole GCSE set-up has me chewing the carpet in frustration. Bring back O levels! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I did a German O level through a correspondence course, and had to go to another school to do my oral test, but otherwise was able to take it at my school even though it wasn't even taught there. No way you could do that these days.]

[notmusimum]

At the moment it seems to be almost impossible to do GCSE outside of school, unless you can come to some extremely complicated arrangement about coursework, becasue the only way they can trust coursework to be above boardm is to dictate that it's done under controlled conditions in the classroom. One of my piano pupils ws doing GCSE and wasn't even allowed to play me her work in hand; her music teacher didn't even like her discussing it with me (and I think this was part of what caused her or her mother to decide to stop lessons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) Controlled coursework can only be done at specified times in school under the supervision of the teachwr

I'd heard of this sort of thing; however, this is a proper GCSE course run by the Sixth Form College, so I would assume they must do the controlled coursework during the class sessions (which occur on a "twilight" basis - about 5 pm).

[As an aside though, the more I learn about it, the more the whole GCSE set-up has me chewing the carpet in frustration. Bring back O levels! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I did a German O level through a correspondence course, and had to go to another school to do my oral test, but otherwise was able to take it at my school even though it wasn't even taught there. No way you could do that these days.]

We looked into the possibility of daughter doing GCSE Music outside the school environment (both daughters actually). We were told they were not allowed to enter at two centres with the one candidate number. It's only been the past 2/3 years where the coursework has been undertaken in the controlled environment it came in the year after daughter did her GCSE Music.

It maybe that the pupils are taught at the centre but there is an agreement with the school that allows them to undertake the coursework in their school. This would be reasonably straight forward with a bit of organisation and willingness.