Conflicting Advice from Another Piano Teacher Options

[MrsP]

I have just finished teaching a lesson for a piano pupil who is doing her grade 1 exam next week. Things have been going very well with her preparation, so I am incredibly frustrated that I have had to spend most of the lesson undoing some new errors in her playing due to inaccurate advice from another piano teacher. I don't know why another piano teacher gave her advice, apparently she was round a friend's house and it was her friend's teacher.

One example is a passage of music where she has to play pairs of quavers, which she has been doing fine for weeks. Today she started playing each pair of quavers as a demisemiquaver followed by a double dotted quaver. When I tried to correct her she said that this was how the other teacher told her to do it. I spent ages getting her back into the correct rhythm again. Her Mother was there during the lesson and seemed to confirm that this was how she had been shown to do it, so I don't think it was just a case of my pupil misunderstanding. There is other conflicting advice which he gave her too, but I won't go into details or we'll be here all day.

I am so frustrated that I had to waste a whole lesson correcting another teacher's numerous mistakes when the exam is so close and we only have one more lesson. I am also quite insulted that another teacher has knowingly undermined my teaching like this, and given advice that conflicts with mine, which my pupil would have pointed out to the other teacher.

Has anyone else experienced this, and how do you deal with it?

Sorry for the long rant, I am not happy!


Just thought I would add this in response to some of the replies:

I don't think this was anything to do with a note inegal as the other teacher had also told her to play the quavers in a sight reading test in this way, as confirmed by her Mother when I went through that same sight reading test with her today, not knowing he had gone through it with her.

[linda.ff]

I have just finished teaching a lesson for a piano pupil who is doing her grade 1 exam next week. Things have been going very well with her preparation, so I am incredibly frustrated that I have had to spend most of the lesson undoing some new errors in her playing due to inaccurate advice from another piano teacher. I don't know why another piano teacher gave her advice, apparently she was round a friend's house and it was her friend's teacher.

One example is a passage of music where she has to play pairs of quavers, which she has been doing fine for weeks. Today she started playing each pair of quavers as a demisemiquaver followed by a double dotted quaver. When I tried to correct her she said that this was how the other teacher told her to do it. I spent ages getting her back into the correct rhythm again. Her Mother was there during the lesson and seemed to confirm that this was how she had been shown to do it, so I don't think it was just a case of my pupil misunderstanding. There is other conflicting advice which he gave her too, but I won't go into details or we'll be here all day.

I am so frustrated that I had to waste a whole lesson correcting another teacher's mistake when the exam is so close and we only have one more lesson. I am also quite insulted that another teacher has knowingly undermined my teaching like this, and given advice that conflicts with mine, which my pupil would have pointed out to the other teacher.

Has anyone else experienced this, and how do you deal with it?

Sorry for the long rant, I am not happy!

You mean this teacher has been telling her that a pair of quavers should sound like a scotch snap only even sharper? Or almost, a crotchet with an acciaccatura before it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I hope you have told the mother that on no condition should she ever take advice from that teacher again! The only reason I can imagine for tht is if the other teacher were an early music specialist and had inside information that this,sort of note inegale was what was in force at the precise time and place thet the piece in question was written, though even in Lully/Rameau period it's very extreme, but in any case, it wouldn't have been expected at grade 1. My immediate thought is that it's not a proper teacher, but somebody trying to show off to the child's friend (and making a hash of it).

I've never been undermined in this way, and I'd be extremely angry if it happened. I think the mother needs to understand that harm as been done. She needs to be able to trust you, and basically this child has been told that what you were teaching here was wrong. Best suggest to the mother that she looks at performances of these pieces on YouTube - there's not shortage of them! and then she'll see who she can trust. And, assuming that the mother knows the parent(s) of the child's friend, try to send a message back to the other teacher that this will not be tolerated - particularly as, if what you described is representative of what she did, she's teachng errors.

[Alder]

The only reason I can imagine for tht is if the other teacher were an early music specialist and had inside information that this,sort of note inegale was what was in force at the precise time and place thet the piece in question was written, though even in Lully/Rameau period it's very extreme, but in any case, it wouldn't have been expected at grade 1. My immediate thought is that it's not a proper teacher, but somebody trying to show off to the child's friend (and making a hash of it).

Haaaang on a second... Isn't there something in the notes at the bottom of the page in the ABRSM book about 'note inegale' in one of the early A pieces? I'm sure I remember demonstrating it to a pupil and them really disliking the sound, so we just ignored it. I don't have books to hand or I'd check...


Edit: I'd no sooner hit 'post' than I realised this would just annoy me if I didn't check. There *is* a mention, under the A1 piece, but it's in Grade 2, not Grade 1. (I remember my pupils finding it amusingly 'swingy' for the time period!)

[owainsutton]

Maybe the other teacher was showing her how to improve even quavers, by working at them with dotted and with scotch snap rhythms, and both child and mother misunderstood or misremembered?

Genuinely conflicting advice from other teachers is very difficult to handle, but it's also hard when one gets into a situation where a learner wants some kind of feedback to not put one's foot in it! (Trying to stick to 'examiner comments', reflecting on the musical outcome but not specifics of technique, is a good option.)

[MrsP]

Thanks for the replies. I have added to my post in order to clarify a point brought up by a couple of people who replied. (Rather than put the clarifications in this post where it might get missed by anyone else thinking of replying.)

[linda.ff]

I don't think this was anything to do with a note inegal as the other teacher had also told her to play the quavers in a sight reading test in this way, as confirmed by her Mother when I went through that same sight reading test with her today, not knowing he had gone through it with her.

Good grief, that sounds like the sort of simple rhythm error beginners make if they've not been taught properly - you know, crotchet (stop think) crotchet (stop think) quick pair of quavers (stop think) often made worse by using the words tea and coffe for crotchets and quavers - so often the "coffee" is rushed though with a short first note and a longer secnd.

If it's really true, I do hope it turns out that it wasn't a teacher at all, becasue gawd knows what else he's teaching his "pupil" if that's a sample.

Which piece was it?

[MrsP]

If it's really true, I do hope it turns out that it wasn't a teacher at all, becasue gawd knows what else he's teaching his "pupil" if that's a sample.

Which piece was it?

I really hope he's not a teacher too!

It was B:3 A Tender Flower mainly, but this was happening a little in the other pieces too, and of course an awful lot in the sight reading as mentioned.

[linda.ff]

If it's really true, I do hope it turns out that it wasn't a teacher at all, becasue gawd knows what else he's teaching his "pupil" if that's a sample.

Which piece was it?

I really hope he's not a teacher too!

It was B:3 A Tender Flower mainly, but this was happening a little in the other pieces too, and of course an awful lot in the sight reading as mentioned.

Gosh. Niche research study, maybe - notes inegales in Felix Swinstead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[dolce@piano]

http://abrsmpublishing.dloadshop.com/index.asp?a=6&b=1

This is the website with the little sound clips of how each ABRSM grade 1 piece is 'supposed' to sound, as decided by the Board itself.

I'd send it to the mother (I'm assuming you don;t have the CD or have bought the idividual pieces) - quavers are equal notes - just to back up your point.

(NB the Daquin is also played as equal quavers in the G2 list, I think the 'notes inegales' thing is just trouble waiting to happen . . . )

[maggiemay]

I have to say I would be spitting feathers if another 'teacher ' pulled this one with a pupil of mine. Especially just before an exam!

dolce@piano, I agree, I think the in?gale thing is generally not appropriate at this level and just adds problems. Many of my grade one -ish pupils have worked hard to play quavers evenly and the last thing you need is boat-rocking!

[linda.ff]

http://abrsmpublishing.dloadshop.com/index.asp?a=6&b=1

(NB the Daquin is also played as equal quavers in the G2 list, I think the 'notes inegales' thing is just trouble waiting to happen . . . )

Surely in the Daquin, even if you decided to use notes inegales, it would only apply to the RH anyway, at lrast in the first section? That running bass line doesn't sound like anything I ever heard if you phrase it short-long, short-long. The other way around, possibly, notes inegales can go both ways.

[Bagpuss]

To the OP - I am appalled by this! I'd have been spitting with my hackles well and truly UP had this happened to me. Tender Flower styled as you describe should be retitled Spiky Cactus or similar!

Make your displeasure known and I sincerely hope you are able to get the child back on track for the exam.

Talk about stress you DON'T need!

Let us know how it goes,

Cross-on-your-behalf-Bag x

[anacrusis]

The teacher would not be an early music specialist if advising this degree of unevenness in that direction - and I really can't think of any reason why such playing might be advised. I do, if practising difficult transitions from note to note, deliberately pull the rhythm about, dotting alternate notes, then reversing that next time round, but this is highly unlikely to be happening at grade one in this way.

Where inegale is used, it's found in the smallest frequently occurring time division of a piece - so if there is a crotchet beat, and there are lots of quavers, then you'd make the quavers uneven - and it's really only done when notes move stepwise over most of the piece (though a third counts as an honorary second), and then done so throughout. Thus pieces which feature lots of arpeggiation in the quavery sections would automatically exclude themselves from being played inegale. It's also generally only a convention in French baroque music, so very very niche indeed....worlds away from a grade 1 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

I agree with the others - very very annoying interference if that's what's happened.....though still, possibly, some room for wondering what the actual course of events was?

[MrsP]

I agree with the others - very very annoying interference if that's what's happened.....though still, possibly, some room for wondering what the actual course of events was?

Well, yes I really did wonder what exactly had happened between this other teacher and my pupil, and I'm still very confused. I mean surely a proper musician/music teacher wouldn't teach something so incorrect or inappropriate? At first I thought my pupil must have misunderstood what he had told her. But then her Mother confirmed that she had indeed been told to do this and that she had been given conflicting advice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I don't know what to make of this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

To the OP - I am appalled by this! I'd have been spitting with my hackles well and truly UP had this happened to me. Tender Flower styled as you describe should be retitled Spiky Cactus or similar!

Make your displeasure known and I sincerely hope you are able to get the child back on track for the exam.

Talk about stress you DON'T need!

Let us know how it goes,

Cross-on-your-behalf-Bag x

Ha ha Spiky Cactus sounds about right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thanks for making me smile, I am so upset about this, I needed a smile.

[owainsutton]

But then her Mother confirmed that she had indeed been told to do this and that she had been given conflicting advice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Is it possible that mother is also mistaken? (Or that she's become defensive, for whatever reason?)