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> Music Scholarships for Independent Schools, Do they encourage child abuse?
Alicia Ocean
post Mar 30 2012, 02:46 PM
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We have a few local independent schools - not specialist music schools, that's rather different - that offer a discount on fees by way of a scholarship in various fields. There's generally a maths scholarship, an academic scholarship, a sports scholarship and a music scholarship.

I know an eight year old entering for grade 5 piano this term. It's essential to the parents that this child continues to show outstanding achievement to maintain their music scholarship and hefty discount at their school. The child gets back from school at 7pm (no homework as it's done at school) and then has time for tea and practice before bed and then doing it all again the next day. I can't say whether the child is enjoying this routine but I know the mother is very, very strict about practice. Isn't this sort of pressure on a child a form of abuse? Are the music scholarships perpetuating this? Any thoughts?
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Yoshifumu
post Apr 1 2012, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Mar 30 2012, 03:46 PM) *
Isn't this sort of pressure on a child a form of abuse? Are the music scholarships perpetuating this? Any thoughts?


I would say that forcing a child to practice something against their will just to gain some financial reward (especially one that is never relayed to the child) is tantamount to abuse.

Whether the school is encouraging it is a bit different...

You could say that following the same line of thought boarding schools encourage gross neglect.

I just hope that schools have enough insight to find children who actually enjoy their music and voluntarily practice and learn. Either way there is a whole load of debate on this topic of strict parenting and forcing children to do stuff as well as whether it is good or bad for kids.



To add some extra dimensions to the topic, check out this Tiger Mum stuff for examples.


Here's an extract from this newspaper article (which in turn extracted it from the book mentioned above):

QUOTE
Lulu was about 7, still playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really cute?you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with its master?but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart. Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off.

"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.

"You can't make me."

"Oh yes, I can."

Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu?which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her?and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique?perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet?had I considered that possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."

I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together?her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing?just like that.

Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.


I doubt every child that gets a scholarship goes through the same thing.

But some definitely do, and it is difficult to compete with other children at this age on a performance basis if they are practicing that hard (albeit for all the wrong reasons).

It's only later when they will get their own choice to quit that the competition might become a bit more fair.
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Alicia Ocean   Music Scholarships for Independent Schools   Mar 30 2012, 02:46 PM
notmusimum   I don't suppose the schools set up scholarship...   Mar 30 2012, 03:42 PM
soccermom   It sounds to me that the pressure is coming from t...   Mar 30 2012, 04:22 PM
sunil   daughter failed to get into specialist music schoo...   Mar 31 2012, 12:51 PM
sbhoa   daughter failed to get into specialist music scho...   Mar 31 2012, 12:55 PM
sunil   Each school is bit different, as we looked around ...   Mar 31 2012, 12:58 PM
FullofWind   Music scholarships are often overly demanding on a...   Mar 31 2012, 11:48 AM
soccermom   But the child in question is not trying to get a p...   Mar 31 2012, 03:57 PM
Clari Nicki1   Firstly, hefty discounts do not exist any more at ...   Mar 31 2012, 05:00 PM
FullofWind   Well my grandfather was down the mines at age 11 s...   Mar 31 2012, 07:26 PM
Aquarelle   [/quote] Can I quote that next time a pupil compl...   Apr 2 2012, 03:09 PM
ansatz496   Well my grandfather was down the mines at age 11 ...   Apr 2 2012, 04:56 PM
Yoshifumu   Isn't this sort of pressure on a child a form ...   Apr 1 2012, 08:11 PM
FullofWind   How to boarding schools encourage gross neglect? T...   Apr 1 2012, 08:19 PM
Yoshifumu   How to boarding schools encourage gross neglect? ...   Apr 1 2012, 08:31 PM
FullofWind   I'm sure child psychologists, many who never h...   Apr 1 2012, 09:00 PM
Yoshifumu   Although being hypocritical of someones parenting ...   Apr 1 2012, 09:18 PM
FullofWind   Although being hypocritical of someones parenting...   Apr 1 2012, 09:57 PM
BadStrad   As for the child psychologist thing, some may have...   Apr 2 2012, 04:21 PM
Dulcet   We have a few local independent schools - not spe...   Apr 2 2012, 08:48 AM
Cyrilla   There is an article in this month's 'Music...   Apr 2 2012, 11:33 PM
FullofWind   There is an article in this month's 'Musi...   Apr 5 2012, 04:12 PM
Cyrilla   There is an article in this month's 'Mus...   Apr 5 2012, 11:04 PM
emsmummy   Don't be too quick to judge - it sounds like s...   Apr 5 2012, 07:19 AM
Yoshifumu   Don't be too quick to judge - it sounds like ...   Apr 5 2012, 12:49 PM
ansatz496   I don't think I would criticise you at all fo...   Apr 5 2012, 01:38 PM
Invidia   We have a few local independent schools - not spe...   Apr 5 2012, 02:09 PM
Alicia Ocean   Though on the other side of the coin, whenever I...   Apr 5 2012, 04:16 PM
FullofWind   Though on the other side of the coin, whenever ...   Apr 5 2012, 05:04 PM
Invidia   I seem to have knocked this thread off topic somew...   Apr 5 2012, 10:40 PM
ansatz496   I think what ansatz described really can go eithe...   Apr 6 2012, 03:54 AM
Alicia Ocean   How do you define "genuine"? Surely ev...   Apr 6 2012, 07:09 AM
Yoshifumu   How do you define "genuine"? Surely ever...   Apr 7 2012, 11:49 AM
ansatz496   Though on the other side of the coin, whenever I...   Apr 5 2012, 05:34 PM
Listener   Who'd be a Chinese mother? I am pleased that I...   Apr 5 2012, 05:59 PM
linda.ff   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what a...   Apr 5 2012, 09:44 PM
ansatz496   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what ...   Apr 5 2012, 10:10 PM
notmusimum   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what ...   Apr 5 2012, 10:14 PM
corenfa   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what ...   Apr 5 2012, 10:46 PM
linda.ff   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what...   Apr 5 2012, 10:54 PM
corenfa   There are definite cultural aspects to pushy paren...   Apr 5 2012, 06:28 PM
FullofWind   My experience of certain cultures is that they wan...   Apr 5 2012, 10:20 PM
linda.ff   My experience of certain cultures is that they wa...   Apr 5 2012, 10:41 PM
notmusimum   To notmusimum - of course, I'm not counting t...   Apr 6 2012, 10:07 AM
Listener   I am fully aware there are pushy parents out ther...   Apr 6 2012, 11:55 AM
corenfa   (Full disclaimer - I have part Chinese ethnicity) ...   Apr 6 2012, 12:01 PM
Listener   (Full disclaimer - I have part Chinese ethnicity)...   Apr 6 2012, 02:01 PM
notmusimum   Corenfa, the point I am arguing is that this is n...   Apr 6 2012, 02:17 PM
sunil   I think there is a big difference between "le...   Apr 6 2012, 12:07 PM
corenfa   I know it's not an exclusively Chinese trait. ...   Apr 6 2012, 02:09 PM
FullofWind   There will be many Asian parents reading this thre...   Apr 6 2012, 03:19 PM
notmusimum   There will be many Asian parents reading this thr...   Apr 6 2012, 04:46 PM
StuMac   All this talk of Chinese parents......it was Jewis...   Apr 10 2012, 04:44 PM
barncottagecat   All this talk of Chinese parents......it was Jewi...   Apr 16 2012, 08:41 PM
Listener   All this talk of Chinese parents......it was Jew...   Apr 17 2012, 10:53 AM
sadrap   Music Scholarships.... child abuse.... really ...   Apr 16 2012, 07:52 PM
Swell Box   I do remember when my nephew was ill one Christma...   Apr 19 2012, 09:53 AM
sadrap   Oh Swell mum, what a sad experience your child had...   Apr 19 2012, 03:12 PM
StuMac   I do remember when my nephew was ill one Christm...   Apr 19 2012, 03:42 PM
Tixylix   There will be many Asian parents reading this thr...   Apr 18 2012, 01:37 PM
Yoshifumu   I wouldn't blame them. What's really irrit...   Apr 18 2012, 02:47 PM
Yoshifumu   I'm just wondering why these state schools loo...   Apr 19 2012, 03:35 PM
notmusimum   I'm just wondering why these state schools lo...   Apr 19 2012, 04:39 PM
SaxLad   I'm just wondering why these state schools lo...   Apr 20 2012, 12:11 PM
Ayshah   Swell Box I am moved by your story. Yes state sch...   Apr 19 2012, 03:56 PM
Tixylix   I'm just wondering why these state schools l...   Apr 20 2012, 03:32 PM
soccermom   [quote name='SaxLad' post='1143343' date='Apr 20 ...   Apr 20 2012, 05:04 PM
Chris H   We have never had any problems with either pupils ...   Apr 20 2012, 04:05 PM
Swell Box   Swell Box I am moved by your story. Yes state sc...   Apr 20 2012, 08:12 PM
sadrap   [ In short, if we knew what we know now seven ye...   Apr 20 2012, 11:15 PM
tonedeafmum   Even with a scholarship I (and a huge number of ot...   Apr 21 2012, 10:53 AM
sadrap   Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderful...   Apr 21 2012, 05:05 PM
tonedeafmum   Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderfu...   Apr 21 2012, 08:53 PM
sadrap   "I think a decent education is sadly a privil...   Apr 21 2012, 09:39 PM
notmusimum   Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderf...   Apr 22 2012, 08:34 AM
Chris H   We do all of the above, plus our kids go to a comp...   Apr 21 2012, 05:31 PM
sadrap   Yes your right, my child is very lucky and was awa...   Apr 21 2012, 06:32 PM
Chris H   That's fair enough, we have been very lucky wi...   Apr 21 2012, 07:07 PM
Chris H   :agree: Hear hear - let's hear it for the teac...   Apr 21 2012, 08:57 PM
all ears   I think that is true that the fact that music i...   Apr 22 2012, 01:28 AM
FullofWind   Music at my comp was dropped after the second year...   Apr 22 2012, 07:37 AM
sbhoa   Music at my comp was dropped after the second yea...   Apr 22 2012, 11:07 AM
Yoshifumu   For about half the time I was in secondary school ...   Apr 22 2012, 01:25 PM
Roseau   That said I've known people in state schools ...   Apr 22 2012, 01:37 PM
Tixylix   It seems like so much is down to luck. Being in a ...   Apr 22 2012, 03:58 PM
Misti   Extra-curriculars aren't going to help that mu...   Apr 22 2012, 05:35 PM
Tixylix   If there is a chance though, could your family re...   Apr 22 2012, 05:51 PM
Scooby Doo   Yes, Cambridge certainly has quite a lengthy addit...   Apr 22 2012, 06:26 PM
Swell Box   I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broker ...   Apr 23 2012, 02:07 PM
Chris H   I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broker...   Apr 23 2012, 04:06 PM
Swell Box   I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broke...   Apr 23 2012, 09:49 PM
Misti   The UCAS reference is something I'm honestly ...   Apr 23 2012, 05:11 PM
Listener   Sigh, to get back to the OP (and away from the ted...   Apr 24 2012, 07:44 AM
jonathanquinn   A child ought not to be coerced into taking part i...   Apr 24 2012, 03:44 PM
Scooby Doo   Would you have us living in a dictatorship then? F...   Apr 24 2012, 03:54 PM
Chris H   Would you have us living in a dictatorship then? ...   Apr 24 2012, 04:01 PM
randomsabreur   I'm very strongly of the opinion that the educ...   Apr 24 2012, 04:12 PM
FullofWind   The biggest problem with state schools is that a l...   Apr 24 2012, 05:26 PM
andante   The reason no government has abolished private sch...   Apr 24 2012, 05:38 PM
sunil   At the moment daughter goes to a state primary sch...   Apr 24 2012, 05:49 PM
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