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> Music Scholarships for Independent Schools, Do they encourage child abuse?
Alicia Ocean
post Mar 30 2012, 02:46 PM
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We have a few local independent schools - not specialist music schools, that's rather different - that offer a discount on fees by way of a scholarship in various fields. There's generally a maths scholarship, an academic scholarship, a sports scholarship and a music scholarship.

I know an eight year old entering for grade 5 piano this term. It's essential to the parents that this child continues to show outstanding achievement to maintain their music scholarship and hefty discount at their school. The child gets back from school at 7pm (no homework as it's done at school) and then has time for tea and practice before bed and then doing it all again the next day. I can't say whether the child is enjoying this routine but I know the mother is very, very strict about practice. Isn't this sort of pressure on a child a form of abuse? Are the music scholarships perpetuating this? Any thoughts?
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tonedeafmum
post Apr 21 2012, 10:53 AM
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Even with a scholarship I (and a huge number of other parents in this country) wouldn't be able to afford to send my children to an Independent School so I have only really been reading this thread with casual interest. However, I would like to say a word in favour of the mediocre Comp.

Daughter goes to just such a State School. They teach all comers (rather than a specially selected few) and on just under half the funding per pupil of the average minor Public School. It takes the promise of expensive treats and the threat of court action to keep a large number of the children in school on a regular basis and it's a good year if half the children manage to acheive a C grade in English and Maths. I never wanted my daughter to go there and I considered myself to be a failure as a parent and a provider when I realised that there was no other viable option for her.

However, every one of the teachers I have encountered there is a hard working and dedicated educationalist, not a cynical wage-slave waiting on early retirement. They put in enormous amounts of effort to help the less able and to stretch the more able. They have an annual budget of ?120 for extra-curricular music but somehow they have already managed two concerts, two musicals and a thoroughly awful but much enjoyed "Britain's Got Talent" this year. Among those staff members and their associates who have volunteered to help out with the school band on a regular basis are the Head of Music's wife, the Deputy Head, and one of the school cleaners.

The school have been very supportive of Daughter's Music, allowing her teacher to use the school music facilities for extra lessons outside of the usual peripatetic timetable, allowing Daughter out of school for concerts and rehearsals, and even to attend concerts because they accept that is an important part of her musical education. She is allowed into the Music Department to practise or just to hang out with other interested musicians every lunchtime and there is an informal performance opportunity every week during lunchbreak. The general standard of musical ability at the school is much lower than at most private schools but the level of interest and appreciation is as high as you could hope to see. Yes, there is teasing, and Daughter is thought of as "posh" for playing the violin but she takes it in her stride and the school have responded very quickly to any of my concerns.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that Daughter would make quicker progress academically and musically at a private school but she is coping just fine where she is. She came home from school yesterday very happy because the Head Teacher made a point of introducing her to a new member of staff with the words, "I don't think you've met our musician."

I'm sorry that so many of you seem to have had poor experiences with the Comprehensive system but there are plenty of state schools and a huge number of state school teachers out there doing their best under very difficult conditions.


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sadrap
post Apr 21 2012, 05:05 PM
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Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderful school that encourages music. You shouldn't presume that those who send their children to fee paying schools don't make huge sacrifices. I haven't had a holiday for 4 or 5 years. We have a banger for a car, our house is run down. I buy the economy range from the supermarket and my kids shop at primark. We have chosen this in hope our children have opportunity's that we never had.
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tonedeafmum
post Apr 21 2012, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(sadrap @ Apr 21 2012, 06:05 PM) *

Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderful school that encourages music. You shouldn't presume that those who send their children to fee paying schools don't make huge sacrifices. I haven't had a holiday for 4 or 5 years. We have a banger for a car, our house is run down. I buy the economy range from the supermarket and my kids shop at primark. We have chosen this in hope our children have opportunity's that we never had.

No - I don't "presume" but please don't you presume either.
I don't own a house or a car and we have never had a family holiday. I have nothing left to "sacrifice" to pay for what I cannot, under any circumstances, afford. We don't even have a Primark! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

And I don't think there is anything I have said about my daughter's school which makes it sound so very "wonderful." It doesn't have an orchestra or a choir. It has a band (one keyboard, 2 singers and 3 violinists) and a few ad hoc groups that are set up now and again to provide fodder for the Music Btec. I just wanted to redress the balance a little since so much mud seemed to be being thrown at hard working teachers who are doing their best.
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sadrap
post Apr 21 2012, 09:39 PM
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"I think a decent education is sadly a privilege not a right. Not because of bad teaching but simply because of large class sizes and the stress secondary teachers are under"

This is what I said earlier, teachers are under way to much pressure and bureaucracy. I have great admiration for anyone that can teach and inspire the younger generation.
I'm sorry your daughter is not receiving the music education at school she obviously deserves, but that is exactly why my child became a Chorister. My child was fortunate, but I am fully aware a lot of very talented children who aren't so lucky. Sorry to have misunderstood you earlier.
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Posts in this topic
Alicia Ocean   Music Scholarships for Independent Schools   Mar 30 2012, 02:46 PM
notmusimum   I don't suppose the schools set up scholarship...   Mar 30 2012, 03:42 PM
soccermom   It sounds to me that the pressure is coming from t...   Mar 30 2012, 04:22 PM
sunil   daughter failed to get into specialist music schoo...   Mar 31 2012, 12:51 PM
sbhoa   daughter failed to get into specialist music scho...   Mar 31 2012, 12:55 PM
sunil   Each school is bit different, as we looked around ...   Mar 31 2012, 12:58 PM
FullofWind   Music scholarships are often overly demanding on a...   Mar 31 2012, 11:48 AM
soccermom   But the child in question is not trying to get a p...   Mar 31 2012, 03:57 PM
Clari Nicki1   Firstly, hefty discounts do not exist any more at ...   Mar 31 2012, 05:00 PM
FullofWind   Well my grandfather was down the mines at age 11 s...   Mar 31 2012, 07:26 PM
Aquarelle   [/quote] Can I quote that next time a pupil compl...   Apr 2 2012, 03:09 PM
ansatz496   Well my grandfather was down the mines at age 11 ...   Apr 2 2012, 04:56 PM
Yoshifumu   Isn't this sort of pressure on a child a form ...   Apr 1 2012, 08:11 PM
FullofWind   How to boarding schools encourage gross neglect? T...   Apr 1 2012, 08:19 PM
Yoshifumu   How to boarding schools encourage gross neglect? ...   Apr 1 2012, 08:31 PM
FullofWind   I'm sure child psychologists, many who never h...   Apr 1 2012, 09:00 PM
Yoshifumu   Although being hypocritical of someones parenting ...   Apr 1 2012, 09:18 PM
FullofWind   Although being hypocritical of someones parenting...   Apr 1 2012, 09:57 PM
BadStrad   As for the child psychologist thing, some may have...   Apr 2 2012, 04:21 PM
Dulcet   We have a few local independent schools - not spe...   Apr 2 2012, 08:48 AM
Cyrilla   There is an article in this month's 'Music...   Apr 2 2012, 11:33 PM
FullofWind   There is an article in this month's 'Musi...   Apr 5 2012, 04:12 PM
Cyrilla   There is an article in this month's 'Mus...   Apr 5 2012, 11:04 PM
emsmummy   Don't be too quick to judge - it sounds like s...   Apr 5 2012, 07:19 AM
Yoshifumu   Don't be too quick to judge - it sounds like ...   Apr 5 2012, 12:49 PM
ansatz496   I don't think I would criticise you at all fo...   Apr 5 2012, 01:38 PM
Invidia   We have a few local independent schools - not spe...   Apr 5 2012, 02:09 PM
Alicia Ocean   Though on the other side of the coin, whenever I...   Apr 5 2012, 04:16 PM
FullofWind   Though on the other side of the coin, whenever ...   Apr 5 2012, 05:04 PM
Invidia   I seem to have knocked this thread off topic somew...   Apr 5 2012, 10:40 PM
ansatz496   I think what ansatz described really can go eithe...   Apr 6 2012, 03:54 AM
Alicia Ocean   How do you define "genuine"? Surely ev...   Apr 6 2012, 07:09 AM
Yoshifumu   How do you define "genuine"? Surely ever...   Apr 7 2012, 11:49 AM
ansatz496   Though on the other side of the coin, whenever I...   Apr 5 2012, 05:34 PM
Listener   Who'd be a Chinese mother? I am pleased that I...   Apr 5 2012, 05:59 PM
linda.ff   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what a...   Apr 5 2012, 09:44 PM
ansatz496   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what ...   Apr 5 2012, 10:10 PM
notmusimum   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what ...   Apr 5 2012, 10:14 PM
corenfa   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what ...   Apr 5 2012, 10:46 PM
linda.ff   This kind of parenting slightly puzzles me: what...   Apr 5 2012, 10:54 PM
corenfa   There are definite cultural aspects to pushy paren...   Apr 5 2012, 06:28 PM
FullofWind   My experience of certain cultures is that they wan...   Apr 5 2012, 10:20 PM
linda.ff   My experience of certain cultures is that they wa...   Apr 5 2012, 10:41 PM
notmusimum   To notmusimum - of course, I'm not counting t...   Apr 6 2012, 10:07 AM
Listener   I am fully aware there are pushy parents out ther...   Apr 6 2012, 11:55 AM
corenfa   (Full disclaimer - I have part Chinese ethnicity) ...   Apr 6 2012, 12:01 PM
Listener   (Full disclaimer - I have part Chinese ethnicity)...   Apr 6 2012, 02:01 PM
notmusimum   Corenfa, the point I am arguing is that this is n...   Apr 6 2012, 02:17 PM
sunil   I think there is a big difference between "le...   Apr 6 2012, 12:07 PM
corenfa   I know it's not an exclusively Chinese trait. ...   Apr 6 2012, 02:09 PM
FullofWind   There will be many Asian parents reading this thre...   Apr 6 2012, 03:19 PM
notmusimum   There will be many Asian parents reading this thr...   Apr 6 2012, 04:46 PM
StuMac   All this talk of Chinese parents......it was Jewis...   Apr 10 2012, 04:44 PM
barncottagecat   All this talk of Chinese parents......it was Jewi...   Apr 16 2012, 08:41 PM
Listener   All this talk of Chinese parents......it was Jew...   Apr 17 2012, 10:53 AM
sadrap   Music Scholarships.... child abuse.... really ...   Apr 16 2012, 07:52 PM
Swell Box   I do remember when my nephew was ill one Christma...   Apr 19 2012, 09:53 AM
sadrap   Oh Swell mum, what a sad experience your child had...   Apr 19 2012, 03:12 PM
StuMac   I do remember when my nephew was ill one Christm...   Apr 19 2012, 03:42 PM
Tixylix   There will be many Asian parents reading this thr...   Apr 18 2012, 01:37 PM
Yoshifumu   I wouldn't blame them. What's really irrit...   Apr 18 2012, 02:47 PM
Yoshifumu   I'm just wondering why these state schools loo...   Apr 19 2012, 03:35 PM
notmusimum   I'm just wondering why these state schools lo...   Apr 19 2012, 04:39 PM
SaxLad   I'm just wondering why these state schools lo...   Apr 20 2012, 12:11 PM
Ayshah   Swell Box I am moved by your story. Yes state sch...   Apr 19 2012, 03:56 PM
Tixylix   I'm just wondering why these state schools l...   Apr 20 2012, 03:32 PM
soccermom   [quote name='SaxLad' post='1143343' date='Apr 20 ...   Apr 20 2012, 05:04 PM
Chris H   We have never had any problems with either pupils ...   Apr 20 2012, 04:05 PM
Swell Box   Swell Box I am moved by your story. Yes state sc...   Apr 20 2012, 08:12 PM
sadrap   [ In short, if we knew what we know now seven ye...   Apr 20 2012, 11:15 PM
tonedeafmum   Even with a scholarship I (and a huge number of ot...   Apr 21 2012, 10:53 AM
sadrap   Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderful...   Apr 21 2012, 05:05 PM
tonedeafmum   Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderfu...   Apr 21 2012, 08:53 PM
sadrap   "I think a decent education is sadly a privil...   Apr 21 2012, 09:39 PM
notmusimum   Your daughters very lucky to have such a wonderf...   Apr 22 2012, 08:34 AM
Chris H   We do all of the above, plus our kids go to a comp...   Apr 21 2012, 05:31 PM
sadrap   Yes your right, my child is very lucky and was awa...   Apr 21 2012, 06:32 PM
Chris H   That's fair enough, we have been very lucky wi...   Apr 21 2012, 07:07 PM
Chris H   :agree: Hear hear - let's hear it for the teac...   Apr 21 2012, 08:57 PM
all ears   I think that is true that the fact that music i...   Apr 22 2012, 01:28 AM
FullofWind   Music at my comp was dropped after the second year...   Apr 22 2012, 07:37 AM
sbhoa   Music at my comp was dropped after the second yea...   Apr 22 2012, 11:07 AM
Yoshifumu   For about half the time I was in secondary school ...   Apr 22 2012, 01:25 PM
Roseau   That said I've known people in state schools ...   Apr 22 2012, 01:37 PM
Tixylix   It seems like so much is down to luck. Being in a ...   Apr 22 2012, 03:58 PM
Misti   Extra-curriculars aren't going to help that mu...   Apr 22 2012, 05:35 PM
Tixylix   If there is a chance though, could your family re...   Apr 22 2012, 05:51 PM
Scooby Doo   Yes, Cambridge certainly has quite a lengthy addit...   Apr 22 2012, 06:26 PM
Swell Box   I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broker ...   Apr 23 2012, 02:07 PM
Chris H   I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broker...   Apr 23 2012, 04:06 PM
Swell Box   I read a report this morning about a Yacht Broke...   Apr 23 2012, 09:49 PM
Misti   The UCAS reference is something I'm honestly ...   Apr 23 2012, 05:11 PM
Listener   Sigh, to get back to the OP (and away from the ted...   Apr 24 2012, 07:44 AM
jonathanquinn   A child ought not to be coerced into taking part i...   Apr 24 2012, 03:44 PM
Scooby Doo   Would you have us living in a dictatorship then? F...   Apr 24 2012, 03:54 PM
Chris H   Would you have us living in a dictatorship then? ...   Apr 24 2012, 04:01 PM
randomsabreur   I'm very strongly of the opinion that the educ...   Apr 24 2012, 04:12 PM
FullofWind   The biggest problem with state schools is that a l...   Apr 24 2012, 05:26 PM
andante   The reason no government has abolished private sch...   Apr 24 2012, 05:38 PM
sunil   At the moment daughter goes to a state primary sch...   Apr 24 2012, 05:49 PM
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