The Balanced Embouchure (Jeff Smiley), - anyone come across it? Options

[saxophile]

I've been doing a bit of poking around on the internet about trumpet embouchure problems, since Son No.1 is experiencing a lot of difficulties with stamina, range and consistency, and I keep coming across references to a book / method called "The Balanced Embouchure" by Jeff Smiley.

I know nothing about brass embouchures, but there appear to be a lot of recommendations for this guy's approach, and if the internet can be believed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) it does seem to work well for the kinds of problems Son No.1 is having (and without requiring him to ditch his current embouchure immediately, which is rather impractical given his playing commitments for the next few months). But the book is not readily available except from the US, and seems expensive, so it would be a bit of a gamble to get it on the offchance that it proves useful

Anyone know anything about it? To a layperson, the stuff on his website makes sense (but then, what do I know?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ).

And before anyone asks: I haven't discussed the issues as yet with Son's teacher, partly because it's the school holidays (so no lessons), and partly because I don't often get an opportunity to do so. I am planning to do so if the problems are still persisting after the holidays. However, I really need some kind of written guidance , since the notebook scribbled in by teacher tends just to include a few pointers, and Son (bless him!) is only distantly connected to reality much of the time, and is therefore completely vague when asked what specific guidance his teacher has given in the lesson.

[kenm]

I don't know anything about the balanced embouchure, but there is an enthusiast for it on a horn mailing list to which I belong. A few other players, including professionals and teachers, have commented on it. May I quote you to the list? I could ask the contributors for permission to quote their views here.

[saxophile]

I don't know anything about the balanced embouchure, but there is an enthusiast for it on a horn mailing list to which I belong. A few other players, including professionals and teachers, have commented on it. May I quote you to the list? I could ask the contributors for permission to quote their views here.

That would be great - many thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you need more details, the problems we are experiencing are:

- considerable inconsistency: sometimes the high range (top line F to C above the stave - we're not talking altissimo register here) is OK, sometimes it's a real struggle.

- difficulties with high range generally: nothing above a top line F can be taken for granted, and often they sound forced.

- stamina. Son played a couple of longish pieces as his list A and B pieces in his recent Gr 6, and then ran into real difficulties with the second half of his study (couldn't get high notes; practically couldn't play). Whilst that was in an exam situation (so nerves may have been a factor), stamina is generally an issue.

Son is 12, rising 13; he's a reasonable size for his age, but I guess he still isn't very big (so there may be physical limitations causing issues as well - eg with adequate breath support).

[briantrumpet]

At the risk of flooding you:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=29

I rather take all the 'schools' of trumpet technique with a pinch of salt - I'm sure they all have their good points. 'Balanced Embouchure' sounds sensible, but I'm not sure what it means precisely in the Jeff Smiley instance.

Sorry if the following is somewhat depressing. Unfortunately embouchure problems are neither rare nor easy to fix. Once there is a problem (very often problems will have been set up in the first few weeks of learning, so are well ingrained), it can take years to sort out fully, and takes considerable determination and patience from the learner. A good diagnostic tool is just to ask the player to buzz a (trumpet) middle C, then a slow scale of C. If there are embouchure problems they will probably be evident here - either a lot of airiness in the sound throughout, or two or three notes which just don't want to sound at all - a bit 'yodelly'. There is much to be learnt by just learning to do this one-octave slow scale well, with really resonant tone. And though this can take years to sort out fully (and it will have a positive effect in the high range too, if done properly), it can start helping fairly quickly, though at the same time some high range might be temporarily lost.

But this sort of work can cause dilemmas when assessed performances are in the learner's calendar. I've had instances where an inherited pupil has had to have two embouchures - the old one, which 'gets him through' the performance, and the new one which he's working on.

And other times I've put a pupil on the French horn or trombone if there's enough time to explore in that direction. I'm afraid that sometimes a trumpet just doesn't suit some people, but they can shine on another brass instrument.

[saxophile]

At the risk of flooding you:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=29

I rather take all the 'schools' of trumpet technique with a pinch of salt - I'm sure they all have their good points. 'Balanced Embouchure' sounds sensible, but I'm not sure what it means precisely in the Jeff Smiley instance.

Sorry if the following is somewhat depressing. Unfortunately embouchure problems are neither rare nor easy to fix. Once there is a problem (very often problems will have been set up in the first few weeks of learning, so are well ingrained), it can take years to sort out fully, and takes considerable determination and patience from the learner. A good diagnostic tool is just to ask the player to buzz a (trumpet) middle C, then a slow scale of C. If there are embouchure problems they will probably be evident here - either a lot of airiness in the sound throughout, or two or three notes which just don't want to sound at all - a bit 'yodelly'. There is much to be learnt by just learning to do this one-octave slow scale well, with really resonant tone. And though this can take years to sort out fully (and it will have a positive effect in the high range too, if done properly), it can start helping fairly quickly, though at the same time some high range might be temporarily lost.

But this sort of work can cause dilemmas when assessed performances are in the learner's calendar. I've had instances where an inherited pupil has had to have two embouchures - the old one, which 'gets him through' the performance, and the new one which he's working on.

And other times I've put a pupil on the French horn or trombone if there's enough time to explore in that direction. I'm afraid that sometimes a trumpet just doesn't suit some people, but they can shine on another brass instrument.

Thanks for this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Don't worry about being depressing: we'd rather identify, accept and work at solving the problem, even if it takes a long time, than carry on 'hoping' that it will all come together by itself. The difficulty is knowing quite what to do, particularly since I've never played a brass instrument so don't have much of an idea how Son ought to be playing. All I can identify is that there is a problem, rather than what that problem is, if you follow me. That was why I was hoping to find some kind of written and more detailed guidance to work from.

When you say "buzz", do you mean with trumpet, with mouthpiece only, or without mouthpiece or trumpet? Son's teacher has suggested (according to notes in notebook) buzzing with lips only, but there's no further guidance as to what he ought to be buzzing.

We're open to the possibility of switching instruments (Son is quite keen on the idea of trombone), but since he has put in the work to get to Gr 6 already and - when everything is working - can make a really good sound, we're a bit reluctant to give up on trumpet just yet.

[briantrumpet]

When you say "buzz", do you mean with trumpet, with mouthpiece only, or without mouthpiece or trumpet? Son's teacher has suggested (according to notes in notebook) buzzing with lips only, but there's no further guidance as to what he ought to be buzzing.

We're open to the possibility of switching instruments (Son is quite keen on the idea of trombone), but since he has put in the work to get to Gr 6 already and - when everything is working - can make a really good sound, we're a bit reluctant to give up on trumpet just yet.

Buzz - mouthpiece by itself (though sometimes 'free-buzzing' without the mouthpiece can help set up the correct embouchure, if done, er, correctly). The goal is to get a nice relaxed buzz, but with all the muscles firm, focusing the air through a controlled aperture in the middle of the lips. When you get it right you should get a good clear resonant un-airy sound - good air support with open throat. This way the air support not only provides the energy to buzz the lips (no sense of squeezing), but also inside of the body will provide resonance for the sound. (You should imagine the lips as being in the mid-point of the actual instrument, which is the trumpet and the player combined - the instrument does not start at the mouthpiece.)

Regarding changing instruments - no harm in trying the trombone, if he likes the idea. If the embouchure on the trumpet is the only thing holding him back, there's no reason he wouldn't quite quickly get to Gr 5 or 6 on the trombone. And, to be honest, it is likely to be a very log haul on the trumpet, from my experience, and opportunities for trumpeters are much more limited. If he gets on well with the trombone, people will be inviting him to play all over the place. I'd suggest if he's got performances to do in the Summer Term then to do them the best he can, but then to work out through the Summer Term the basics of the trombone, and to try to learn some stuff on that in the Summer holidays.

The most spectacular progress I've had on the trombone was someone who'd self-taught himself trumpet for a term, then changed to trombone with me for a term and passed Grade 7. He was a good musican (guitarist) already, but he did rather demonstrate what is possible!

[saxophile]

Thanks, briantrumpet! I'll get Son No.1 to try the buzzing and listen carefully for the sound quality; and then I think it is probably time for a more in-depth discussion with his teacher after Easter.

[briantrumpet]

Thanks, briantrumpet! I'll get Son No.1 to try the buzzing and listen carefully for the sound quality; and then I think it is probably time for a more in-depth discussion with his teacher after Easter.

Good plan. Good luck!

[kenm]

I get my messages from the horn list as emails, but there is also a record of all its posts as an open Yahoo web site, so anyone can access it and read them. The discussion of the Balanced Embouchure that I remembered starts here.

If you scroll down this page, you will come to a tree of all the posts following on from the start.

[saxophile]

Thanks, briantrumpet! I'll get Son No.1 to try the buzzing and listen carefully for the sound quality; and then I think it is probably time for a more in-depth discussion with his teacher after Easter.

Just an update on this. I went along to a lesson last week, since Son No.1 was really struggling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) , and it appears that the issues are:

- mouthpiece placement (too low, with the rim resting below the outer edge of the upper lip, resulting in higher notes either not happening, or only happening with lots of pressure)

- inadequate breath support

- generally excess tension in neck / shoulder area, causing obstruction to air flow.


Teacher has recommended:

- shift mouthpiece placement up fractionally, so the the rim is resting just above the outer edge of the lip
- practice in front of a mirror (or a mother (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) to make sure the m/p doesn't slip down again, and that shoulder / neck area is suitably relaxed
- various exercises to strengthen musculature around the lip area
- buzzing
- various exercises (including eg sit-ups) to strengthen abdominal muscles
- breathing exercises

I am trying to encourage Son No.1 to accept that this is going to be a long-term project, but worth the effort in the end, since at the moment he can't reliably play beyond an octave above middle C with the revised embouchure. I just hope I'm not being guilty of telling him porkies on this one, and that he IS going to get there in the end.... Teacher confirmed that in a recent lesson he was already getting a good sound on G above the staff with the new embouchure, so it seems he can do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Czerny]

I don't know anything about this either, but I love the fact that someone who's writing about embouchure is called "smiley"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[peterngarnett]

I went though a similar phase several months ago and was recommended - How Brass Players Do It by John Ridgeon.
It was brought out in the mid seventies as some of the photos will show!
It opens with a chapter on the 'science' behind the lip, mouthpiece and technique, followed by a progressive series of lip building and flexibilty phrases.
I have found it really useful and have incoperated it into my warm up.
Stick at it - we all have off-days/weeks!

[saxophile]

I went though a similar phase several months ago and was recommended - How Brass Players Do It by John Ridgeon.
It was brought out in the mid seventies as some of the photos will show!
It opens with a chapter on the 'science' behind the lip, mouthpiece and technique, followed by a progressive series of lip building and flexibilty phrases.
I have found it really useful and have incoperated it into my warm up.
Stick at it - we all have off-days/weeks!

Thanks for this recommendation - have now got hold of a copy, and it does seem to be very useful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It ties in with a lot of what the teacher has been saying (eg as to jaw position), which is particularly helpful.

Fourth line D is now secure and the E is getting better all the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[briantrumpet]

Fourth line D is now secure and the E is getting better all the time.

It's worth bearing in mind that in grade exam syllabuses that the high range expected increases by just one note per grade once second-space C has been reached (Grade 1). Taking a grade-per-year progress, that illustrates the sort of rate of development (sensibly) assumed by the boards. It rather puts into perspective the physical demands made by the trumpet, and the amount of patience required.

[saxophile]

Fourth line D is now secure and the E is getting better all the time.

It's worth bearing in mind that in grade exam syllabuses that the high range expected increases by just one note per grade once second-space C has been reached (Grade 1). Taking a grade-per-year progress, that illustrates the sort of rate of development (sensibly) assumed by the boards. It rather puts into perspective the physical demands made by the trumpet, and the amount of patience required.

Agreed - but try getting a 13-yr old to be patient! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It doesn't help that the (17-yr old) lead trumpet player in our music centre band is superb and has a jaw-dropping command of the upper register. Son No.1 has a tendency to assume that he should be able to do the same if he is a "proper" trumpet player (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ....