Piano teachers teaching singing, why? Options

[soccermom]

As a non-expert, I find it very difficult to judge what standard a singer is. With most instruments, I think you can reasonably say that if someone can play a range of pieces at a particular grade, then they are more or less at that standard. If a parent said to a new piano teacher "my child can play everything in the grade 2 book, so please can we pick three pieces and do the exam" I don't think anyone would find it particularly surprising, so I can see perfectly well why a parent might not understand that the same doesn't apply to singing, especially when their child plays another instrument.

I know it doesn't apply because many years ago I sang songs now on the grade 7 and 8 syllabuses at choir auditions (we had to re-audition every 3 years). They were songs I liked and I thought they suited my voice and were well within my capabilities. I didn't think they were at all difficult (I was amazed when I saw where there were on the syllabus) and probably practised them only 2 or 3 times in advance. I know I sang them well in the sense that I sang the right notes at the right time, in tune, and with some dynamics and expression. But that doesn't (unfortunately) make me a grade7/8 level singer. I have no technique - have never had a lesson and know I don't breathe or support my voice properly.

[Cyrilla]

I guess I mean things like the things that my school class music teacher told us in the days when we all sang songs in music lessons? They didn't profess to be expert 'singing teachers' but they encouraged everyone to find their voice and enjoy using it. This doesn't seem to happen any more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

*small voice*

Some of us do try...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wave.gif)

[fatar760]

I'd still like to know what neck anchoring is if anyone can tell me....?

Although I wasn't the one who brought it up:

All forms of anchoring, of which neck anchoring is a part, are a way to take stress off the larynx/vocal folds via muscular support. Neck anchoring means stabilising the vocal tract from the back (Semispinalis) and front/sides (SCMs) - the latter are the muscles which some people have trouble telling apart from bulging neck veins (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) .

http://www.getbodysmart.com/ap/muscularsys...s/tutorial.html

The page Arundodonuts posted also explains it, although it might leave you under the impression it can feel rather tense, which it doesn't if done properly. It's certainly not a "secret", but you are unlikely to come across it if you don't take singing lessons (which maybe proves a point about the difference between teaching technique and teaching songs. You don't have to bombard your students with jargon btw in case anyone thinks so - you simply show them what to do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

If you want to delve a bit deeper, maybe have a look at "Singing and the Actor" (although here, the term used is "external anchoring"), or think about an Estill workshop.

Well I do know about anchoring and am fairly familiar (and do own a copy of) the Gillian Kayes book - but I've never heard of neck anchoring. If anything, and I do understand what you are saying about the neck muscles, I'd personally look to avoid ANY anchoring in the neck and would feel it safer, perhaps, to target other areas in the body to increase support (such as the shoulder/back muscles)

[AnnC]

Well I do know about anchoring and am fairly familiar (and do own a copy of) the Gillian Kayes book - but I've never heard of neck anchoring. If anything, and I do understand what you are saying about the neck muscles, I'd personally look to avoid ANY anchoring in the neck and would feel it safer, perhaps, to target other areas in the body to increase support (such as the shoulder/back muscles)

And there you might be unwittingly causing problems - shoulder tension is one of the most common problems for singers, especially untrained ones, but experienced singers can suffer, too. Personally, I never mention shoulders, unless there is a problem. I believe that mentioning an area, be it shoulders, neck, tongue, whatever, puts unnecessary focus on it and, in fact, can cause a problem where none existed before (don't fix what ain't broke (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ). That's why group lessons, in my opinion, are unwise. And why technique is best left to a "proper" singing teacher who can HEAR in the voice where the problem is in the body and offer bespoke remedial action.

[Maizie]

*small voice*

Some of us do try...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wave.gif)

I have a list of people to be cloned when I finally invent a cloning device and rule the world. I shall add Cyrilla to this list, issuing one Cyrilla per school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[fatar760]

Well I do know about anchoring and am fairly familiar (and do own a copy of) the Gillian Kayes book - but I've never heard of neck anchoring. If anything, and I do understand what you are saying about the neck muscles, I'd personally look to avoid ANY anchoring in the neck and would feel it safer, perhaps, to target other areas in the body to increase support (such as the shoulder/back muscles)

And there you might be unwittingly causing problems - shoulder tension is one of the most common problems for singers, especially untrained ones, but experienced singers can suffer, too. Personally, I never mention shoulders, unless there is a problem. I believe that mentioning an area, be it shoulders, neck, tongue, whatever, puts unnecessary focus on it and, in fact, can cause a problem where none existed before (don't fix what ain't broke (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ). That's why group lessons, in my opinion, are unwise. And why technique is best left to a "proper" singing teacher who can HEAR in the voice where the problem is in the body and offer bespoke remedial action.

Nahh - lots of presumption here.

[Cyrilla]

*small voice*

Some of us do try...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wave.gif)

I have a list of people to be cloned when I finally invent a cloning device and rule the world. I shall add Cyrilla to this list, issuing one Cyrilla per school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

*whispers* How did you know about my Plan for World Domination???

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Dugazon]

Well I do know about anchoring and am fairly familiar (and do own a copy of) the Gillian Kayes book - but I've never heard of neck anchoring. If anything, and I do understand what you are saying about the neck muscles, I'd personally look to avoid ANY anchoring in the neck and would feel it safer, perhaps, to target other areas in the body to increase support (such as the shoulder/back muscles)

p. 75 ff: Same thing really, just a different name - she describes the use of the neck muscles there. If you don't use them at all, your (intra-)laryngeal muscles are likely to take over instead.

I guess it also depends on how you define "anchoring in the neck": You can use it in a rather gentle way (more like focusing on proper head-neck alignment, and it's hard to do that without using the neck muscles at all, unless your head is not attached to your neck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), or in a stronger way, like e.g. in Belting.

I agree about the importance of the back though, or torso anchoring as a whole. I think we can do this without making the student feel insecure, or focusing too much on certain parts of their body.

[fatar760]

Well I do know about anchoring and am fairly familiar (and do own a copy of) the Gillian Kayes book - but I've never heard of neck anchoring. If anything, and I do understand what you are saying about the neck muscles, I'd personally look to avoid ANY anchoring in the neck and would feel it safer, perhaps, to target other areas in the body to increase support (such as the shoulder/back muscles)

p. 75 ff: Same thing really, just a different name - she describes the use of the neck muscles there. If you don't use them at all, your (intra-)laryngeal muscles are likely to take over instead.

I guess it also depends on how you define "anchoring in the neck": You can use it in a rather gentle way (more like focusing on proper head-neck alignment, and it's hard to do that without using the neck muscles at all, unless your head is not attached to your neck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), or in a stronger way, like e.g. in Belting.

I agree about the importance of the back though, or torso anchoring as a whole. I think we can do this without making the student feel insecure, or focusing too much on certain parts of their body.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I've been meaning to go back to the book has haven't read it for a few years. Thanks for the reference (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)