Can't improvise!, what's the matter with me? Options

[BadStrad]

So my firm view now is yes - have a memory band and yes - listen to Stephan Grapelli - just as in classical violin we might listen to Menuhin. But ultimately this is music you make with your fingers then assess aurally. You don't have some mystical insight and instantly play it

Lingle - What do you mean by a memory band? I haven't come across that term before apart from when you put an elastic band on your wrist to remind you to do something.

I definitely agree with the idea of learning the pentatonic scales - but then most of my improv is Bluegrass, which seems to use them quite often.

I think I disagree about "this is music you make with your fingers." If I try and think about fingerings (I also play violin) I find it hard to improvise. I wouldn't say I have mystical insight, but what I do is to make up the tune in my head and play along to that. - So kind of like composing a counter melody on the fly (though sometimes it's more of a rhythm than a melody). I've found it easier since using some of the exercises in this book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0786676981/ref=...ASIN=0786676981

[lingle]

So my firm view now is yes - have a memory band and yes - listen to Stephan Grapelli - just as in classical violin we might listen to Menuhin. But ultimately this is music you make with your fingers then assess aurally. You don't have some mystical insight and instantly play it

Lingle - What do you mean by a memory band? I haven't come across that term before apart from when you put an elastic band on your wrist to remind you to do something.

I definitely agree with the idea of learning the pentatonic scales - but then most of my improv is Bluegrass, which seems to use them quite often.

I think I disagree about "this is music you make with your fingers." If I try and think about fingerings (I also play violin) I find it hard to improvise. I wouldn't say I have mystical insight, but what I do is to make up the tune in my head and play along to that. - So kind of like composing a counter melody on the fly (though sometimes it's more of a rhythm than a melody). I've found it easier since using some of the exercises in this book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0786676981/ref=...ASIN=0786676981

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

so sorry, the children were calling me out to the garden.... the last paragraph of my post is awful!

didn't mean band, meant "bank"!

how nice to "speak" to another violin player who improvises! is it something you've done for many years, or something that was hard for you? Do you concentrate on jazz or is it lots of different things? I simply would not have believed two or three years ago that I could ever do it.

I expect each person who isn't taught improv. from day one has their own way of getting to be able to do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). For me it really does feel as though the fingers are making the music, whereas my usual learning style is playing along to a virtual recording that I can hear in my head.

sorry you said bluegrass...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[BadStrad]

didn't mean band, meant "bank"!

how nice to "speak" to another violin player who improvises! is it something you've done for many years, or something that was hard for you? Do you concentrate on jazz or is it lots of different things? I simply would not have believed two or three years ago that I could ever do it.

Hi Lingle - Sorry to OP for hi-jacking the thread a bit here. "Memory bank" - that makes more sense.

I've been playing the violin for a little under 3 1/2 years and my teacher has been trying to get me to improvise pretty much from the start. I was very much against it as a concept (having no confidence in my abilities) and I found it hard, though in part that's probably because it was yet another thing added to the already hard process of learning to play the violin. But over the years teacher has kept up the, ahem, encouragement - getting me to play by ear as well as from a score. That was all Bluegrass stuff.

The breakthrough came a year or so ago, probably longer, when he brought round the Gypsy Jazz book. I think it was seeing the improvisations written down that cleared the mists for me. When I could actually look at the example scores and see how the improv was built up the penny suddenly dropped. I guess it was like learning the grammar to make musical sentences.

Also doing the OU course A224 has helped as it's kind of grade 5/6 theory with a focus on analysis, harmony and composition. That added a bit more to the framework, thinking about chord progressions and what notes are in the chords. Until the course I hadn't done any formal music theory, beyond what came up incidentally in lessons - in agreement with teacher I hasten to add.

I'd say I was much better at the jazz improv as it's more of a rhythm and/or counter melody (for me) whereas with the Bluegrass it's the double stops, slides and bowing rhythms that seem to be more popular. I have to admit - I haven't listened to much violin jazz so I could be talking rubbish here - I'm just going on what I've done in lessons.

Back to the OP - I think improvising is like any other instrument skill - you just have to keep chipping away at it. I guess I've been lucky to have a teacher who pressed me to improvise as I went a long. I'm no expert, but I can do it and enjoy it now.