CRB etc Options

[Tulip]

Hi,

Apologies for the naive question...

I started teaching piano at home a couple of months ago, and was wondering if I should be CRB checked. I teach several children (and a couple of adults). Nobody has asked me about this, but a friend told me I could be operating illegally without a CRB check.

Does anyone know about this, please?

Thank you!

[maggiemay]

Nothing you've said suggests you're illegal by not having a CRB. I don't have one. Nobody's asked me for one.

Actually I believe it's still quite difficult to obtain one if you work for yourself. if you take on work for an LEA you will need one, but that 's different.

[Tenor Viol]

Agreed. An employer/hirer may request/require one but there's no requirement otherwise.

The previous government's proposals were dropped.

[BadStrad]

Personal tutors were exempt from the checks as the "contract" of employment was between parent and teacher.

You cannot legally apply for a CRB check for yourself.

[owainsutton]

You cannot legally apply for a CRB check for yourself.

Exactly. It's a common misconeption: the check is one done by an employer, to gain access to information from the authorities about you which would normally be kept private, and you simply get a copy of it in the post. Hence not being able to get one by yourself. (It's actually possible for an employer to be given further information from the police, e.g. "Don't hire this guy as a security guard, he's under surveillance and an arrest is imminent". All the information disclosed to the employer is highly confidential, they've got a strict legal duty not to pass it on further.)

They're most definitely not required for private teaching at home, and although teachers who have them from other employment tend to mention it in advertising, I've never had a parent ask about it.

On the other hand, if you do want to get one, I think it might be possible to do through the ISM or MU.

[franbone]

The NCPCC do an online course called Child Protection awareness in music for which you get a certificate. Being aware is better than a CRB check which only tells your employer that you have no convictions. For more info see http://www.abrsm.org/en/help/safeguardingvideos/

[owainsutton]

The NCPCC do an online course called Child Protection awareness in music for which you get a certificate. Being aware is better than a CRB check which only tells your employer that you have no convictions.

I couldn't agree more. Anyone working with children in schools gets similar specific training in how to deal with the very difficult situations which can and do arise. This is one reason why the "CRB Checked!" adverts from minicab firms demean the whole system.

[gwyntdi-enw]

Absolutely. It is one thing to try to demonstrate to others that you are a "suitable" person to teach their child. It is quite another to recognise a student who may be suffering abuse elsewhere and to know what to do about it. Statistically many of us WILL teach someone in that situation - a very sobering thought.

[BadStrad]

Statistically many of us WILL teach someone in that situation - a very sobering thought.

I would be interested in seeing the source of these statistics. Can you provide a link please.

[Seer_Green]

You cannot legally apply for a CRB check for yourself.

Exactly. It's a common misconeption
...
On the other hand, if you do want to get one, I think it might be possible to do through the ISM or MU.

Agreed, and the ISM were very clear about this when I enquired. I was told that if I was ever questioned about having a CRB, I was well within my rights to say I wasn't legally entitled to apply for one. They were also prepared to back this up if necessary (not that it's ever been an issue). If you want to apply to be one of their ISM appoved teachers (same as the old register), then they will organise a CRB check for you. I thought about this, but decided in the end it wasn't really worth the money (about ?70 I think) and I didn't feel I needed that extra 'status'.

[dolce@piano]

Statistically many of us WILL teach someone in that situation - a very sobering thought.

I would be interested in seeing the source of these statistics. Can you provide a link please.

Supposedly:

"The global prevalence of child sexual abuse has been estimated at 19.7% for females and 7.9% for males, according to a 2009 study published in Clinical Psychology Review that examined 65 studies from 22 countries. Using the available data, the highest prevalence rate of child sexual abuse geographically was found in Africa (34.4%), primarily because of high rates in South Africa; Europe showed the lowest prevalence rate (9.2%); America and Asia had prevalence rates between 10.1% and 23.9%".


That means that in Europe 1 in 10 children are affected and so the post is quite right, you stand a very good chance of teaching someone in this group.

However, a very big caveat is that this includes indecent exposure as an example of sexual abuse. I am NOT trying to open a huge can of worms here but simply to say that someone has been 'flashed' at while walking the dog is most certainly not in the same category as what most of us have in mind when we think of children being abused.

Sorry slightly off-topic - I completely agree with all the others about the general misunderstanding about CRB checks.

[gwyntdi-enw]

Have a look at some recent figures on the NSPCC website:

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/st...t_wda48740.html

[Czerny]

The NCPCC do an online course called Child Protection awareness in music for which you get a certificate. Being aware is better than a CRB check which only tells your employer that you have no convictions. For more info see http://www.abrsm.org/en/help/safeguardingvideos/

I think it depends what you mean by "better". I assume that one could, in theory, have been convicted of inflicting sexual abuse and still complete this course. At least a CRB check shows that you haven't been convicted, even if it obviously can't show that you haven't commited a crime (and not been caught).

[owainsutton]

Regarding the statistics: the obligations to record and report disclosures of abuse also cover physical abuse, emotional abuse, and neglect. That widens the net considerably.

Furthermore, it's likely that a disclosure of abuse will be made to somebody who has gained the trust of the child over a period of time, and in a situation where it's possible for the child to talk privately with the adult - all of which correlate to instrumental teachers.

If you want to apply to be one of their ISM appoved teachers (same as the old register), then they will organise a CRB check for you. I thought about this, but decided in the end it wasn't really worth the money (about ?70 I think) and I didn't feel I needed that extra 'status'.

I'm in the same situation - the only reason I'd apply is if it was likely to bring me in more enquiries, but few parents seem to have even heard of the ISM.

[RoseRodent]

It's obviously a generalisation, but I think the statistics sway a little in that people who are paying for their children to be taking private music lessons are less likely to be those who are involved in some of the more common types of abusive situation such as neglect. Obviously going to music lessons is no vaccination against all forms of abuse, but the statistics for the general population are unlikely to be the same among children taking private music lessons as people such as those with severe alcohol and drug dependence problems who end up neglecting children because they are unable to look after themselves adequately let alone take on the responsibility for a child are unlikely to turn up at a regular weekly slot that is expensive and voluntary. Abuse by neglect is more common that abuse by action, so it would reduce the odds substantially. Not that that means let's all be complacent, but that we are less likely than a general education teacher to encounter these issues.