VCQ's new-violin hunt :D, ...and anyone else's Options

[ViolinClarinetQueen]

VIOLIN SHOPPING!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)
Okay... So I am now hunting for a new (old or new) violin to replace my (sorry to say) rather dire Antoni Debut as a birthday prezzie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I'm only at grade 2 but know enough to realise that the Antoni is... an violin shaped object with an one dimensional, screechy sound (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif)

Have now gone to the local violin shop and tried 3 violins in my price range.
1. Romanian one (either 'unlabelled' or the label has fallen off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) - this might mean a bargain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)) - Tone was quite warm and mellow, but lacked resonance a little - the 'E' string was not screechy but was quite bright but sweet. ?120 (apparently okay up to Grade 6, 7 and perhaps 8)
2. Czech one - too bright and had a VERY 'screechy' E string. Did not like it at ALL and discarded at once. ?350 with set-up - suspecting that it was the set up that was the problem for difficult bowing.
3. Another Czech one but still without label. Resonant but sweet! This Czech one was loud but mellow across the (limited) range I could play and sweet but resonant on the E string. ?250 with extra set up (If this is what it could do without all the set-up work, what would it be like with?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) ) (apparently okay for grade 8 beyond (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) not sure if I believe it really!)

I like the 3rd one the best but am currently taking out the 1st one for approval (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
At the minute neither of those 3 are 'tugging at my heartstring' but I like the 3rd one. A LOT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But obviously... I bet none of you on the forums are going to let me buy it without trying the Gligas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ! Its off to elida next... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Any other violin shops near to South East London/Central London that you can recommend?

p.s. If you're wondering why the 2 violins that I have liked are all under ?300, its because the next one up from that and the 2nd one was at ?700! No way I could afford that. Also since the violin shop was small, they didn't have a wide range to choose from.

Quick question: How would you tell if the purfling was inlaid or drawn on?
-An excited
~ViolinClarinetQueen~ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

[John Cockburn]

Quick question: How would you tell if the purfling was inlaid or drawn on?
-An excited
~ViolinClarinetQueen~ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

If the purfling is drawn on, the grain of the wood on the top or back will carry on through between the scribed lines, inlaid purfling "breaks" the grain lines. This is particularly noticeable on the top since the grain lines are more prominent.
Here's a fairly extreme example showing painted purfling on a 16th century cittern:
(IMG:http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrings/Citterns/Italian/3386/3386UrbinocitternbottomleftcornerLG.jpg)



I wouldn't let drawn on purfling put you off a violin you otherwise like.

[Hubicka]

Czech violins (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) <3

Czech violins are often undervalued yet very well made. I'm not sure about cheaper Czech violins but the works of people like Spidlen, Hubicka and Vavra - master makers, highly undervalued and under appreciated!

Personally I wouldn't buy a violin with drawn on purfling - it suggests to me that the maker didn't care enough to take the time to do what should be standard or wasnt skillful enough? That's probably a silly way for me to think though! And saying that, I played a violin once which the shop had 'discarded' as being a poor instrument mainly as it had drawn on purfling, but i played it and it wasnt terrible and i'm sure it could have made a nice instrument for someone.

I totally don't believe a violin costing ?120 could take you beyond grade 4 let alone to grade 8, same with ?250 - it seems a bit like the shop are giving you false information there. I don't really know anyone who's done grade 8 on anything less than minimum ?800 - but of course this always depends on peoples personal budget, there's no 'you have to do grade X on a violin costing X' you just get what you can afford

But it seems like you're having a lot of fun! Hope you enjoy your violin search - i think it may be a better idea to look somewhere else

[John Cockburn]

Personally I wouldn't buy a violin with drawn on purfling - it suggests to me that the maker didn't care enough to take the time to do what should be standard or wasnt skillful enough? That's probably a silly way for me to think though! And saying that, I played a violin once which the shop had 'discarded' as being a poor instrument mainly as it had drawn on purfling, but i played it and it wasnt terrible and i'm sure it could have made a nice instrument for someone.

I agree it's not usually a hallmark of quality, but there are a lot of old Mirecourt violins (for example) with painted purfling that can make good sense in the price bracket the OP is interested in.
(In fact there are even some nice old big bucks Italian instruments with scribed or burned on purfling on the back... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[Hubicka]

Personally I wouldn't buy a violin with drawn on purfling - it suggests to me that the maker didn't care enough to take the time to do what should be standard or wasnt skillful enough? That's probably a silly way for me to think though! And saying that, I played a violin once which the shop had 'discarded' as being a poor instrument mainly as it had drawn on purfling, but i played it and it wasnt terrible and i'm sure it could have made a nice instrument for someone.

I agree it's not usually a hallmark of quality, but there are a lot of old Mirecourt violins (for example) with painted purfling that can make good sense in the price bracket the OP is interested in.
(In fact there are even some nice old big bucks Italian instruments with scribed or burned on purfling on the back... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

Good point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I do agree that in the price bracket of ?700 and below, it's probably not the most important thing to worry about

[ViolinClarinetQueen]

If the purfling is drawn on, the grain of the wood on the top or back will carry on through between the scribed lines, inlaid purfling "breaks" the grain lines. This is particularly noticeable on the top since the grain lines are more prominent.

I wouldn't let drawn on purfling put you off a violin you otherwise like.

Thanks for the picture - I don't think the Romanian violin has a drawn-on purfling though...

Czech violins (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) <3

Czech violins are often undervalued yet very well made. I'm not sure about cheaper Czech violins but the works of people like Spidlen, Hubicka and Vavra - master makers, highly undervalued and under appreciated!

I was wondering where your forum name came from..! >.<

I totally don't believe a violin costing ?120 could take you beyond grade 4 let alone to grade 8, same with ?250 - it seems a bit like the shop are giving you false information there.

I wasn't believing them AT ALL... until I heard them telling someone else that a Buffet B12 clarinet is 'only' okay for up to Grade 3/4! (It should be technically okay upto Grade 5!)

I don't really know anyone who's done grade 8 on anything less than minimum ?800 - but of course this always depends on peoples personal budget, there's no 'you have to do grade X on a violin costing X' you just get what you can afford

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I was hoping a Gliga Gama (?450) or something around ?350-450 will get me there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

But it seems like you're having a lot of fun! Hope you enjoy your violin search - i think it may be a better idea to look somewhere else

Definitely - might try Elida and Bond on Chappell Street (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Hubicka]

The Gliga should get you there don't worry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good value for money! If I remember correctly did my grade 6 on a ?450 violin and started work for grade 8 on it - but then ended up doing my grade 8 on one that was ?2000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) i cant really remember but id imagine i could have done it on the ?450 if needs be.
Sounds like you have a good plan! Let us know how you get on at the other shops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
You could always post a picture of the purfling if you wanted to find out for sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[soccermom]

My daughter will be doing her grade 8 on a Gliga Gama next term. Her teacher is perfectly happy with it.

[jessy]

I did Dip ABRSM on a Gliga Gama and grade 8 on a lesser instrument - you can only play on what you can afford or are lucky enough to borrow.

[Hubicka]

you can only play on what you can afford or are lucky enough to borrow.

Very true, plus youre probably more likely to benefit in the long run from having to work at getting what you need out of a violin rather than have a really expensive one doing half the work for you

[willobie]

I totally don't believe a violin costing ?120 could take you beyond grade 4 let alone to grade 8, same with ?250 - it seems a bit like the shop are giving you false information there. I don't really know anyone who's done grade 8 on anything less than minimum ?800 - but of course this always depends on peoples personal budget, there's no 'you have to do grade X on a violin costing X' you just get what you can afford

I took my grade 8 on a violin costing ?70 with metal strings. I don't remember any adverse comments about the tone... This was a last-minute upgrade from the previous one which cost ?16 and which kept coming apart at the seams. As you said, if that's all you can afford...

W (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Hubicka]

I totally don't believe a violin costing ?120 could take you beyond grade 4 let alone to grade 8, same with ?250 - it seems a bit like the shop are giving you false information there. I don't really know anyone who's done grade 8 on anything less than minimum ?800 - but of course this always depends on peoples personal budget, there's no 'you have to do grade X on a violin costing X' you just get what you can afford

I took my grade 8 on a violin costing ?70 with metal strings. I don't remember any adverse comments about the tone... This was a last-minute upgrade from the previous one which cost ?16 and which kept coming apart at the seams. As you said, if that's all you can afford...

W (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Wow, very impressive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's amazing. What violin was it did it have a label?

[viola-mad]

you can only play on what you can afford

Particularly as the exams get more and more expensive as you get more advanced!

[Minstrel]

I totally don't believe a violin costing ?120 could take you beyond grade 4 let alone to grade 8, same with ?250 - it seems a bit like the shop are giving you false information there. I don't really know anyone who's done grade 8 on anything less than minimum ?800

The replacement strings on Fiddlechick's grade 8 viola cost more than the instrument ..... admittedly it was a lucky buy but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

Sounds like you're being sensible, VCQ - do factor in the cost of a bow and maybe a case, as after the beginner outfits you often have to buy these separately.

Also, have you told your teacher you're looking for an upgrade? As a teacher myself I keep a list of pupils with instruments they would like to sell on (usually because they're outgrown, either physically or technically) and it may well be that your teacher does something similar.

Enjoy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ViolinClarinetQueen]

I took my grade 8 on a violin costing ?70 with metal strings. I don't remember any adverse comments about the tone... This was a last-minute upgrade from the previous one which cost ?16 and which kept coming apart at the seams. As you said, if that's all you can afford...

W (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

SInce when could you get a violin for 16 pounds?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Tried the Romanian one at home... it sounds like the 'E' string might have to be changed as it sounds quite screechy, but all the other ones are very warm and mellow, but I'm definitely trying more violins!

@Minstrel: Yes, but I don't think he does that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Any violin shop recommendations for around South-East/central London