Nightmare teacher rant! Options

[Scooby Doo]

Well, I'd like to say thanks to EdGJ for moderating but not completely removing the thread. So many times things have got a bit heated and then a perfectly useful discussion has disappeared entirely, and a valuable thread has been lost.

GMc has been galvanised - result!!

[notmusimum]

It's always been the same on this forum that teachers think they have a right to moan about awful parents who push them around. Parents can't moan though when they are not getting the service that they are paying for.

Looks like I've found the exit to our situation though it's going to come at a price. It's going to cause problems with other half as he won't uderstand why but I've got to do right by daughter.

[Scooby Doo]

Really? I seem to recall plenty of discussions either way, but then I post in various roles - student, teacher, parent, so I don't focus on any particular category of threads! (Hoorah for the View New Posts button!)

I don't think people deliberately set out to "parent bash" or "teacher bash" but remarks that are made about a specific situation can spill over into people taking offence on behalf of a whole group and that's when it gets nasty...

[notmusimum]

Really? I seem to recall plenty of discussions either way, but then I post in various roles - student, teacher, parent, so I don't focus on any particular category of threads! (Hoorah for the View New Posts button!)

I don't think people deliberately set out to "parent bash" or "teacher bash" but remarks that are made about a specific situation can spill over into people taking offence on behalf of a whole group and that's when it gets nasty...

Mostly parents support teachers when they are in a difficult situation without making a judgement.

[onemoretime]

Maybe as parents when looking for teachers we should look at our own criteria for suitability, rather than just going on reputation, qualifications, geographic location etc.
I know I would be prepared to travel miles if it was the only way of accessing the most suitable tuition.
There are good and bad teachers, the same as there are parents.
We all have our opinions and sites like this are here for us to voice them.
Part of my criteria is foremost instrumental specialist, extensive professional performance experience , knowledge of education of music and ability to offer advice and guidance.
Not important is the ability to accompany in exams.
Personally I look for the higher musical qualifications rather than grade 8 and feel this is not a level to offer tuition. But this is my opinion.

[recollect]

My intention was not to be nasty as I am not a nasty person in any way shape or form.I just wanted to make a point!I am rather surprised that my comments were taken off this forum as the editor/moderator assumed I was being nasty when in fact I was being sarcastic which in my opinion is very different!It seems like we as teachers arent allowed to make comments which might touch raw nerves,yet I have read comments on here that seem to be always on the side of the parent.mmmmmmmmmmmm I WONDER WHY?p.s I am not shouting at anyone as I was accused of in previous messages it is just that I often forget TO TAKE THE CAP LOCK OFF HEHE.

[FullofWind]

!It seems like we as teachers arent allowed to make comments which might touch raw nerves,yet I have read comments on here that seem to be always on the side of the parent.

Are you being serious?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Onemoretime,

Although I agree with your criteria I think you should be wary of conservatoire profs who never teach young children. Our experience is that they have no idea how to teach that well as they've never experienced difficulties themselves, they often do not understand that an eleven year old will take instruction and practice in a different way to an eighteen year old.

Yes a teacher has to have good credentials, but they also have to be good at teaching children.

[andante]

recollect, things are likely to be from a parent's perspective in the parents' forum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Fullofwind I agree that being an expert is not enough, there has to be an ability to communicate in an appropriate way, which will of course differ between different types of students. A skilled teacher will have several ways of making the same point in case the first falls on deaf ears.

Onemoretime I wholeheartedly agree that a teacher needs to be way past grade 8 before starting to teach.

[notmusimum]

My intention was not to be nasty as I am not a nasty person in any way shape or form.I just wanted to make a point!I am rather surprised that my comments were taken off this forum as the editor/moderator assumed I was being nasty when in fact I was being sarcastic which in my opinion is very different!It seems like we as teachers arent allowed to make comments which might touch raw nerves,yet I have read comments on here that seem to be always on the side of the parent.mmmmmmmmmmmm I WONDER WHY?p.s I am not shouting at anyone as I was accused of in previous messages it is just that I often forget TO TAKE THE CAP LOCK OFF HEHE.

Your post was not sarcastic, to be honest it didn't upset me and don't be of the opinion that I was responsible for it's removal. You cannot deny you were rude though I actually found the caps lock gaff ruder.

What you are saying is totally untrue. I've been on this forum for more than 6 years and throughout that time there has always been more parent bashing than teacher bashing.

I have no time for parents who are rude to teachers and some of the behaviour is completely out of order. Nor have I time for teachers who don't do the job properly or who think they can dolly along and the parent won't eventually realise. I would say both these things happen in equal measure.

You will get frustration from parents when things aren't going right those of us who are not musical will look for the reason. Sometimes teacher/pupil relationships break down for other reasons than inconsideration on anyones part. Teachers probably have other teachers to share concerns with parents are often not that lucky.

I agree with others that the most qualified people don't always make the best teachers though sometimes they do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

The right teacher can be a very personal thing and if you have a good teacher on one instrument it makes it more difficult to settle for second best on another.

[recollect]

My post to you notmusimum WAS sarcastic and not meant to be rude,its just that YOU have taken it to mean rude!I fully agree with lots of things you have said notmusimum and I understand and accept Andantes point that the comments came from a parental angle.

[Ayshah]

But of course we all know teachers of any subject that fundamently are lacking in teaching abilities. I had two esteemed professors at Uni that made me cry with boredom even though they were experts in what was supposed to be my favorite modules. Droning voices, no ability to impart knowledge, oh they were tiresome and tideous compared to the other tutors who held our attention and shared their enthusiasm of the subject .

In the case of music teachers and young children its real hard to get it right. I agree its very personal. One of my daughters had a viola teacher that had every paper qualification in the book, was a former child progidy, well known composer.long line of string players in the family etc., but she couldnt stand him! To her mind he was too dippy, always asking "where are we supposed to be now", as far as she as concerned he should know! He forgot she was coming, even left her standing outside in the rain once and he just irritated her. She wanted someone more focused on teaching HER! Not composing in his head whilst teaching her. And worse in her eyes he accompanied her on an accordian not a proper piano! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I liked him but I had to accept he wasnt good for HER. The new viola teacher was incredibly strict with a very focused timetable. My daughter loved her, as she knew where she was supposed to be and what she was supposed to aim for. She responded to organised focused teaching.

I too have been on this forum for several years and would completely agree that there are far more negative posts on parents than on teachers. I dont know why this is but keen parents are often labled pushy, yet when you read between the lines "non-musical" parents, are simply (in my mind) desperately trying to be supportive. Often they are parents who are excited at their childs musical skills and dont actually realise that they are just standard and not that amazing, and boy do they get bashed on this forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Many leaving in disgust! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Yet other parents do have children that are very very good and they want to find a way to support them to the level where said child can be professional.

Some parents are chasing music places and why not? The educational environment today has motivated many in this direction. So they do want to move through grades a little faster so that they have the necessary paperwork to enable their child to have a shot at a music place. This requires a cooperative teacher. It can be done It has been done. if said teacher doesnt want to, parent will find another one but this doesnt mean they are a "bad parent". Some parents are hoping for funding and these more often than not require a specific grade with a distinction, which means they want the child to move faster than teacher may have originally planned. Some parents have to deal with genuine objectional teachers who are simply jealous of the effort, time and energy that said parent is puttin in, and do all they can to put a spoke in the wheel and I have seen this and heard this in the Staff Room! Such teachers literally sneer at the parents attempts to support their child's music progress. And yet other music teachers will go out of their way to support a child.

So we agree that all the teachers are different and while I can comprehend the moaning about some parents, surely we, parents can be allowed to have a bit of a moan about the odd "not very good" teacher o nthis forum without a backlash (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If we are being sarcastic perhaps we can make use of the clickable smilies as sometimes such an emotion is lost in the written word - lack of vocal tone and facial features is a hazard of forums (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Seer_Green]

I've been on this forum for more than 6 years and throughout that time there has always been more parent bashing than teacher bashing.

This is a fair point, but I wonder if this is not because there are a far greater number of teachers posting than parents? Certainly in the early years there were very few parents posting and I'd say it's only been in the last couple of years that there's been far greater use of the parents' forum. A quick look at the 100 posts at the top of the teachers' forum reveals that just 2% are questions related to directly to parents. OK, some topics get onto this via other routes, but even so, it seems a relatively small number (and even then, I don't think they're all bashing). It's worth remembering that whilst teachers might post about parents, they're not posting about 'all' parents, and that includes the parents who post here. I have no problem with parents posting about teachers when it is appropriate.

Certainly, when I've posted about a parent issue (which is incredibly rarely) I've always tried to phrase it in as nice a way as possible. I posted recently about the issue I'd had with a parent sitting in on lessons. I hope no one took that as a rant as it was certainly not intended in that way. It was simply giving a little background and seeking the advice of other teachers (and indeed, anyone who posted) as to what might be done about it.

I suppose that I come back to the same thing over and over again, and that is mutual respect. I've always tried, as far as is humanly possible, to phrase my posts in such a way that they don't offend (I may have fallen short in the past, but we're all human, we do our best, and even then, no offence would have been intended). As far as I'm concerned, teaching and learning is a collaboration. Teacher, pupil and parent all have a part to play and they all have something to contribute to the process. We all have something to learn from each other, and the fact that we are able to post in topics across the forum as a whole, is, I think, of great benefit. I don't agree with everything everyone says but I respect it. Sometimes I might post that I don't agree, and sometimes not - as far as I'm concerned, everyone's opinion is valuable, and should be respected as such. Just because I might disagree with something, it's not necessarily a criticism, but simply another opinion which, at the end of the day, can be taken or ignored.

It is sad that in the past a small minority of members have chosen, for one reason or another, to launch totally uncalled for personal attacks on other members or groups of members; some of these have turned into what can only be described as personal vendettas. In any community, there will always be periods of harmony and discord (excuse pun!) but it is respect for each individual which matters most in the end.

[violincjj]

and where there IS discord let us bring harmony


I use another forum which uses the acronym PFB which stands for perfect first born, I suspect that some parents possibly see their musical offspring in this light...perhaps it is worth considering that the experienced teacher may have met more than one gifted student in their career?

[owainsutton]

Maybe as parents when looking for teachers we should look at our own criteria for suitability, rather than just going on reputation, qualifications, geographic location etc.

From a teacher's point of view, I couldn't agree more. I'd go further, and encourage those parents who aren't happy, and who don't have a suitable dialogue with the teacher so that things will change, to vote with their feet. From our side, we've all been in positions where there has been a conflict of personalities, of intentions, of ambitions, or so forth.

Maybe it's more difficult for a parent to acknowledge that the same can be the case for their child's relationships with other people (I don't have the experience to state otherwise!), but it is perfectly normal.

[notmusimum]

[I suppose that I come back to the same thing over and over again, and that is mutual respect. I've always tried, as far as is humanly possible, to phrase my posts in such a way that they don't offend (I may have fallen short in the past, but we're all human, we do our best, and even then, no offence would have been intended). As far as I'm concerned, teaching and learning is a collaboration. Teacher, pupil and parent all have a part to play and they all have something to contribute to the process. We all have something to learn from each other, and the fact that we are able to post in topics across the forum as a whole, is, I think, of great benefit. I don't agree with everything everyone says but I respect it. Sometimes I might post that I don't agree, and sometimes not - as far as I'm concerned, everyone's opinion is valuable, and should be respected as such. Just because I might disagree with something, it's not necessarily a criticism, but simply another opinion which, at the end of the day, can be taken or ignored.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I have always tried to be reasonable about teachers complaints about pushy parents. I totally accept that it's a teachers choice to have parents in the lesson or not and parents should abide by that decision.

In the past many of the pushy parent complaints were merely parents trying to gather knowledge and the teacher not communicating. Thankfully over the last few years they have declined and I haven't noticed anything like them for sometime.

I think most teachers would agree that some teaching practices are poor in the same way parents would agree some parental actions are unacceptable. I know in the past there has been much discussion about 3 pieces for a year and an exam being unacceptable it's something as a parent I'd find frustrating. Poor time keeping is another issue I'm sure we can all agree on or lack of technical work.

I've also noticed teachers expressing concerns about new students lacking in skills. sometimes parents will notice this too especially if it's a second instrument or they have other musical experience on some level.