ATCL programme advice and comments Options

[vee]

Hi everyone.

I am self preparing for my ATCL piano recital and hope to get some advice from you on my programme, as well as tips on taking the exam, since I don't have a teacher.

Here is my program and timing :
1. Fantaisie Impromptu - Chopin [5.32]
2.Sonata in A , K 331- Mozart [16.0]
3.Prelude in B minor - Scriabin [0.48]
4. Impromptu in F Minor Op 142 no 1 - Schubert [ 10.40]
5. Song wthout words G Minor - Mendelssohn [2.55]

Total time is roughly about 36 minutes or around it.
Questions: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
1. Have any of you played Fantaisie Impromptu in your ATCL and can you share some comments from examiners on your performance? I'm thinking maybe including this was not such a great idea, as its so popular and I definitely can't play this like a virtuoso.

2. Schubert' s Impromptu:- I'm using the soft pedal continuously in this piece in the B and B1 sections where I find it hard to keep the volume down to pp without using the soft pedal. Any advice on this? I just want to make sure that this will not be taken as a negative point as an inability to achieve pp without pedal use

3. What to you think of the balance of the programme?
4. Is it ok to make a couple of mistakes in the exam? How may mistakes is too many?

Thanks for all your advice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[barry-clari]

Disclaimer : I have recently passed ATCL, but on clarinet, not piano : my piano playing is pretty rudimentary to say the least (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Your programme is rather biased towards the late 1700s/1800s. No Baroque at this level would concern me, on piano (not an issue on clarinet, because we don't have the repertoire there), and to a lesser extent, so would the lack of a more modern work.

I'll leave the pianistic stuff to real pianists, but I can tell you about question 4 : your pieces don't have to be absolutely note perfect, but the performance should be good and pleasant to listen to, and well polished. If it sounds generally scrappy or tonally suspect, you're not ready yet!

I would highly recommend performing some/all your final programme in a public situation, maybe a competitive festival, and/or a masterclass, and/or set up your own recital. You will find that invaluable.

All the very best! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piano.gif)

[vee]

Disclaimer : I have recently passed ATCL, but on clarinet, not piano : my piano playing is pretty rudimentary to say the least (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Your programme is rather biased towards the late 1700s/1800s. No Baroque at this level would concern me, on piano (not an issue on clarinet, because we don't have the repertoire there), and to a lesser extent, so would the lack of a more modern work.

I'll leave the pianistic stuff to real pianists, but I can tell you about question 4 : your pieces don't have to be absolutely note perfect, but the performance should be good and pleasant to listen to, and well polished. If it sounds generally scrappy or tonally suspect, you're not ready yet!

I would highly recommend performing some/all your final programme in a public situation, maybe a competitive festival, and/or a masterclass, and/or set up your own recital. You will find that invaluable.

All the very best! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piano.gif)

Thanks Barry

As you've guessed, I can't bring myself to play Baroque (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I thought the expectation at ATCL was to demonstrate a "wide range of stlyes and techniques" and not necessarily music from different periods, so I'm trying to skirt around Baroque. But you're right, I've stuck to Classical - Romantic mostly and may need to review it.

[corenfa]

I haven't taken the exam so please read what I say through that light - I did think quite hard about doing it a couple years ago and put together a programme. I decided I couldn't be bothered to spend the time learning the pieces for what would be a for-fun exam (not that I am suggesting *you* should not do it, it just wasn't right for me at the time).

I considered a Mozart sonata (would have been K332), the Fantasie-Impromptu and two others which may meet your needs for a short Baroque and/or modern. One is the Bach Prelude & Fugue in D minor (WTC book 2), not hard to learn - both 2 pages long and reasonably easy to comprehend musically (not like some of the other 4-5 page long fugues). The other piece I was considering was the Menuet by Debussy from Suite Bergamasque; it's very likeable, quite learnable and is stylistically quite different from Romantic and Classical.

Your programme does seem to be to be quite Romantic-focused, but as I said above, I haven't taken the exam myself. It is also true that Schubert, Mendelssohn and Chopin are different styles of Romantic.

[lorraineliyanage]

As long as it's a balanced programme, it should be fine. I chose a Dip. programme with pieces from a tiny 40 year period but they sound balanced for moods and styles. Having said that, I haven't done the exam yet, so the examiner might hate it!

[fsharpminor]

I also think there should be something baroque, if not Bach then maybe Scarlatti. If you cant play Baroque, you should think about a piece in more of a Baroque style, eg Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues Op87, havent checked the syllabus though, there might be one on there. This also gives you a 20th century piece.

[Pixie*Porsche]

Interesting one here - the piano wasn't actually invented in Baroque times so I don't see why a piece of that era needs to be in your programme?

[corenfa]

Piano may not have existed in the baroque era, but it's generally accepted for pianists to play Baroque music on the piano so it seems reasonable for the exam boards to consider it part of a balanced programme. That attitude be it right or wrong probably isn't going to change anytime soon...

(I also think, but may be wrong that most of the piano music in Mozart's time would have been for fortepiano rather than pianoforte, so it isn't exactly for the same instrument either)

However I'm not saying that vee's programme *isn't* balanced for the ATCL as I am not qualified to judge. It isn't what I would pick but that doesn't say anything really.

[anacrusis]

There will have been early fortepianos round in Scarlatti's time, and indeed towards the end of Bach's life too, but yes, fortepiano and modern pianoforte are very different beasts.....there again so are baroque and classical oboes compared with modern ones (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

If there is too much clumping of the programme towards one specific genre, Trinity would still let you know, or at least they did me, when I submitted my LTCL one for approval (the rep for our area advised me to do this even with the ATCL one, which I'd picked totally from Trinity's syllabus, but I have since heard that it's not necessary to do so in that case). The person turning down approbation for my LTCL attempt commented specifically on lack of breadth, when I thought I'd provided that by choosing from two different parts of the baroque, different countries of origin, and one modern piece: I had to add in a further modern one, and change the range of instruments used too.

Is the aversion to baroque music to do with not liking it? Or finding it too difficult? I'm asking because I did play material I dislike, for both of my dips, and actually, despite hating the stuff, and being so relieved when I could at last put it aside and forget about it, learning such uncongenial repertoire still taught me valuable technique and tricks which is applicable to the repertoire I do love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)...

[vee]

There will have been early fortepianos round in Scarlatti's time, and indeed towards the end of Bach's life too, but yes, fortepiano and modern pianoforte are very different beasts.....there again so are baroque and classical oboes compared with modern ones (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

If there is too much clumping of the programme towards one specific genre, Trinity would still let you know, or at least they did me, when I submitted my LTCL one for approval (the rep for our area advised me to do this even with the ATCL one, which I'd picked totally from Trinity's syllabus, but I have since heard that it's not necessary to do so in that case). The person turning down approbation for my LTCL attempt commented specifically on lack of breadth, when I thought I'd provided that by choosing from two different parts of the baroque, different countries of origin, and one modern piece: I had to add in a further modern one, and change the range of instruments used too.

Is the aversion to baroque music to do with not liking it? Or finding it too difficult? I'm asking because I did play material I dislike, for both of my dips, and actually, despite hating the stuff, and being so relieved when I could at last put it aside and forget about it, learning such uncongenial repertoire still taught me valuable technique and tricks which is applicable to the repertoire I do love (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)...

Interesting insight from everyone....

However, consider this: Trinity says that your program should consist of a "minimum of two works". So at ATCL, it means two sonatas- thats the only way you can fill in 35 + minutes- an average sonata would be around 16 minutes or so withouts repeats and stuff

So :Question to everyone: If you choose to play two Sonatas as per Trinity's specifications in the syllabus, what would be the criteria to evaluate whether a programme is balanced or not? You obviously cant cover all eras with just two pieces- nor can you cover " a wide range of moods and styles" since that is limited by the movements of the sonatas themselves- there's nothing you can do about it.

So...it should be still possible ( theoretically) to just do two works and still have a balanced programme (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

About my aversion of baroque- its not thats its too difficult- its just not my style. Unlike a piece by Chopin which you can interpret anyway you like, use rubato, add your own essence to the music, its hard to do that with Bach except maybe add a couple of embellishments. You'll probably be penalised for playing Bach in any way other that the "correct" way

Also, getting your programme approved by Trinity does not mean that they agree that it's balanced. The approval is only for own choice pieces in the context of your overall prorgamme . Which means they could approve your programme and still comment on lack of artistic balance during your recital...

[ansatz496]

Interesting insight from everyone....

However, consider this: Trinity says that your program should consist of a "minimum of two works". So at ATCL, it means two sonatas- thats the only way you can fill in 35 + minutes- an average sonata would be around 16 minutes or so withouts repeats and stuff

I don't think it would be generally advisable to play two sonatas even if the rules "officially" seem to allow it. The general consensus is that 1 "large"/multi-movement work should be balanced by 2-3 shorter works, though of course nothing is a hard and fast rule. That being said, I don't think you need to include baroque if you don't want to, but in that case I would advise having something later/in a less romantic style than Scriabin.

[VH2]

(I also think, but may be wrong that most of ALL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) the piano music in Mozart's time would have been for fortepiano rather than pianoforte, so it isn't exactly for the same instrument either)

also Haydn and Beethoven knew only the Fortepiano, and even the pianos of the Liszt/Chopin/Schumann/Mendelssohn era were not the same as the modern instrument.

[vee]

Interesting insight from everyone....

However, consider this: Trinity says that your program should consist of a "minimum of two works". So at ATCL, it means two sonatas- thats the only way you can fill in 35 + minutes- an average sonata would be around 16 minutes or so withouts repeats and stuff

I don't think it would be generally advisable to play two sonatas even if the rules "officially" seem to allow it. The general consensus is that 1 "large"/multi-movement work should be balanced by 2-3 shorter works, though of course nothing is a hard and fast rule. That being said, I don't think you need to include baroque if you don't want to, but in that case I would advise having something later/in a less romantic style than Scriabin.

I would also agree with ansatz496 that doing two sonatas is not such a good idea- I was just trying to visualize how one could do two works and still maintain a wide range of styles and moods.

However I got some surprising feedback from Trinity so I thought I would share it with the group. Trinity actually recommends performing two large works over multiple short works because artistic coherence corresponds with musical sense, which carries 30% weightage in the marking scheme, one of the parameters being 'assured handling of large scale structure.' So it does look as though the ability to perform complete and large works ( sonatas) carries more weight than shorter pieces from different eras by different composers.Their recommendation is to perform two sonatas by two different composers that have a wide range of moods, styles and tempi within them.

I guess that makes it a lot simpler- as you're dealing with just two works for your Dip and need not worry about choosing pieces from different eras. Though its too late for me to change my programme, others who are just starting to plan their Dips may find this useful.

[lorraineliyanage]

I did 5 short works for my ATCL, the longest was 7.5 minutes (no Sonata) and the examiner didn't have a problem with it, so I think your programme will be fine!

[vee]

I did 5 short works for my ATCL, the longest was 7.5 minutes (no Sonata) and the examiner didn't have a problem with it, so I think your programme will be fine!

Thats great to know ! My ATCL is just about 2 weeks away. I know it isn't exactly a balanced programme, but its the best I have for the moment.

Thats the flip side of self preparation- I just started pieces that I liked and kept adding them to my programme without thinking too much about styles and eras- and the end result was...well..its just a set of pieces that I am comfortable with and it also happens to be mostly Romantic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm hoping that the Mozart sonata will compensate for other minuses because it is, after all a large scale work. As for Fantaisie Impromptu...... I think it sounds ok.......until I listen to Katsaris and Yundi Li's fingers flying over the keyboard and end up feeling depressed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Keeping my fingers crossed...