The importance of a distinction Options

[FullofWind]

Should you only sit grade 8 when you know there is a very high chance that a distinction will be achieved? There will be musicians for whom this would be a mammoth task but if a child was capable of getting a comfortable pass, would it be better to wait up to two years until they were beyond distinction level? How are resits viewed by conservatoires if a child wishes to gain a distinction at a later date?

[BerkshireMum]

I can't see what the objection is to pass/merit/distinction - I have far more issues with the somewhat daft idea that only one of the three is worth having.

But I think they are two sides of the same issue. If we did not have pass/merit/distinction then we would not have the present situation where the superb achievement of passing Grade 8 is looked down on by many who think that only a Distinction is worth having (and do not understand that passing grade 8 piano is a far more difficult achievement than, for example, getting an A grade in an A level).

I fail to see why you think that this is the case. Children of junior age regularly pass grade 8 piano because the main requirements for passing are good tuition and sufficient drive from the child to ensure lots of practice. How many juniors pass A-levels (I except Maths from this, as to a large extent being good at Maths is down to how your brain is constructed, and is possible for juniors with good tuition)? I would argue that the amount of reading, writing and understanding required to pass English Lit or History A-level with grade A is way above that required to pass a grade 8 instrumental exam.

Added to which, music students who have grade 8 in 2 or 3 instruments don't always pass Music A-level at grade A despite their obvious interest in music. I think you have overstated your case here.

[VH2]

[Children of junior age regularly pass grade 8 piano because the main requirements for passing are good tuition and sufficient drive from the child to ensure lots of practice. How many juniors pass A-levels (I except Maths from this, as to a large extent being good at Maths is down to how your brain is constructed, and is possible for juniors with good tuition)? I would argue that the amount of reading, writing and understanding required to pass English Lit or History A-level with grade A is way above that required to pass a grade 8 instrumental exam.

Personally, I've done A-levels and I've done piano exams, and I know which required more time, more dedication, and more discipline.

If more junior school children were actually stretched, rather than having much of their time wasted, I see no reason why they could not pass A-levels in sciences, history, geography, languages at age 11 or thereabouts. At least, those that are capable of passing advanced music exams could probably get A-levels too. The humanities would be more difficult than sciences because the kids lack life experience, but they are not so lacking that they could not pass the exams after being well taught, and doing the necessary studying. Junior school children are very much more capable than we think, when their interest is aroused and they are challenged to excel

The differences (between music and regular academic subjects) are:

that many children begin serious study of an instrument at age 5, 6, 7 or 8, whereas it is rare for a child to study a subject in the right way to lead to A-level in another 4 or 5 years until they are in their 3rd year of secondary school at the age of 14 (+/1 a year).

- playing an instrument is a practical skill. You cannot "cram" for an exam, at least not so effectively as for an academic subject. It is "knowing how" rather than "knowing that". You have to practice regularly and often, over a long period of time.

[ansatz496]

Personally, I've done A-levels and I've done piano exams, and I know which required more time, more dedication, and more discipline.

If more junior school children were actually stretched, rather than having much of their time wasted, I see no reason why they could not pass A-levels in sciences, history, geography, languages at age 11 or thereabouts. At least, those that are capable of passing advanced music exams could probably get A-levels too. The humanities would be more difficult than sciences because the kids lack life experience, but they are not so lacking that they could not pass the exams after being well taught, and doing the necessary studying. Junior school children are very much more capable than we think, when their interest is aroused and they are challenged to excel

The differences (between music and regular academic subjects) are:

that many children begin serious study of an instrument at age 5, 6, 7 or 8, whereas it is rare for a child to study a subject in the right way to lead to A-level in another 4 or 5 years until they are in their 3rd year of secondary school at the age of 14 (+/1 a year).

- playing an instrument is a practical skill. You cannot "cram" for an exam, at least not so effectively as for an academic subject. It is "knowing how" rather than "knowing that". You have to practice regularly and often, over a long period of time.

I passed grade 8 piano (with distinction, for what it's worth) when I was 17, and achieved a good pass on DipABRSM the next year, but the time and effort I put into piano was practically insignificant compared to what I was doing in math and physics - piano was basically something I did to blow off steam. Making blanket statements about the difficulty of any field compared to any other is pointless - everyone is different.

[VH2]

I passed grade 8 piano (with distinction, for what it's worth) when I was 17,

Me too!!

and achieved a good pass on DipABRSM the next year, but the time and effort I put into piano was practically insignificant compared to what I was doing in math and physics - piano was basically something I did to blow off steam.

My experience was the exact reverse. I messed about for a year and a half, then learned 4 A-levels (including Maths and Physics) in 2 months. I worked hard at the piano but it did not seem like hard work as it was so enjoyable.

Making blanket statements about the difficulty of any field compared to any other is pointless - everyone is different.

Yes you are right. One cannot necessarily generalize from personal experience. I ought to know that by now!

If more junior school children were actually stretched, rather than having much of their time wasted, I see no reason why they could not pass A-levels in sciences, history, geography, languages at age 11 or thereabouts.

But why on earth would you want them to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I wouldn't necessarily. I was just making a point about what they are capable of.