The importance of a distinction Options

[notmusimum]

Youngest son took Gd 7 flute and Gd 7 violin when he was 12 and (I think) got high merits for both, he's now 14. There is no way on earth he is taking Gd 8 on either for at least 3 years! What's the point? He can play beautiful music for all that time and grow up enough to want to be able to play all his scales well, learn loads of interesting things about context and composition that make his beautiful pieces 'work' and generally have a happy musical time!
If he wants a musical career then he can do that whenever he takes Gd 8, at the moment he does not. If he changes his mind then all the things he has learned during this non-exam time are of enormous value.

As a musician and teacher yourself you will have more understanding of how these things work. Those of us who are not need to be guided by teachers and the guidance we get will be very different.

In an ideal world getting to be one exam away from where you needed to be, at 12, if you wanted a musical career is very impressive. You have done exactly what I did, you have looked at his best options and guided him along the way. You've kept the door open in case your son changes his mind.

I don't blame you waiting until he matures to take grade 8 and having all that time for musical development is wonderful. I guess you also have piano in the mx which is often the bit people play catch up on. It's about the only thing I've ever had to nag daughter over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ayshah]

We did this before. For some the exam is a goal to aim for. Some children actually do like taking the exams (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some children only do the higher grades eg. 6, 7 and 8. In particular if they are multi instrumentalist. They dont want to waste time (and money) taking three or four of the earlier grades.

My youngest did Grade 1, and 2 Descant recorder, Grade 1 to 4 Piano, Grade 1, 3 and 5 Violin plus Grade 6,7 and 8 Viola. Grade 6, 7 and 8 Alto Sax. The distinctions were in the latter two instruments.

[barncottagecat]

It's all very well saying that a grade 8 distinction it doesn't matter, but doesn't that depend on what you want to do with your music? If you want to be in the NCO, NYO, selected summer music courses, other orchestras, JDs? (perhaps, I don't know much about those), then it can be very useful! - for the NYO application they ask for a copy of your exam mark sheet. If you are more interested in using grades as something to work for and as a record of your personal achievement, then I agree, distinction chasing doesn't matter.

[Ayshah]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It's all very well saying that a grade 8 distinction it doesn't matter, but doesn't that depend on what you want to do with your music? If you want to be in the NCO, NYO, selected summer music courses, other orchestras, JDs? (perhaps, I don't know much about those), then it can be very useful! - for the NYO application they ask for a copy of your exam mark sheet.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Only once has my daughter got funding/a place without having been required to present a G8 distinction mark sheet. The one occasion was at an audition for an American Scholarship and I did send in the G8 mark sheet anyway with full a Music CV. The panell actually had the copy in front of them during her audition and one remarked to her,... "this would help weed out the time-wasters, shame we dont have this in the States". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Halka]

... for the NYO application they ask for a copy of your exam mark sheet.

Has this changed? Last year they were asking for a copy of the grade 8 certificate (rather than mark sheet, I think) OR a letter from teacher confirming the auditionee was grade 8 distinction standard (which is what we provided). My impression is that these orchestras usually make a big point of saying that you don't actually have to have taken any exams.

It's nice not to have to put the teacher to trouble though, and to feel you really can prove the point independently of those who might be prejudiced!

P.S. I don't suppose lack of the grade 8 certificate, by itself, explains why she didn't get in!

[barncottagecat]

... for the NYO application they ask for a copy of your exam mark sheet.

Has this changed? Last year they were asking for a copy of the grade 8 certificate (rather than mark sheet, I think) OR a letter from teacher confirming the auditionee was grade 8 distinction standard (which is what we provided). My impression is that these orchestras usually make a big point of saying that you don't actually have to have taken any exams.

It's nice not to have to put the teacher to trouble though, and to feel you really can prove the point independently of those who might be prejudiced!

P.S. I don't suppose lack of the grade 8 certificate, by itself, explains why she didn't get in!

Yes this year they are asking for an upload of the mark sheet - still a letter from the teacher will suffice also, so that's not changed..

[andante]

The whole process is quite different this year Halka.

[notmusimum]

I would have been very much in the camp that grade 8 has to be Distinction before Grade 8. Looking back I think it's less important and I'm probaly more convinced that one Distinction will not be absolutly equal to another. I don't just mean in the marking but for all sorts of factors.

[VH2]

It's all very well saying that a grade 8 distinction it doesn't matter

I have never thought that it does not matter. I think it is a shame that it does matter, and that the exam boards have developed a system of three levels of pass in the Grade exams.

[Arundodonuts]

It's all very well saying that a grade 8 distinction it doesn't matter

I have never thought that it does not matter. I think it is a shame that it does matter, and that the exam boards have developed a system of three levels of pass in the Grade exams.

If there was only pass or fail, what do you think should be the pass mark? What about other exams with a range of pass grades - GCSEs, A levels, degrees?

[Yet another muso]

... for the NYO application they ask for a copy of your exam mark sheet.

Has this changed? Last year they were asking for a copy of the grade 8 certificate (rather than mark sheet, I think) OR a letter from teacher confirming the auditionee was grade 8 distinction standard (which is what we provided). My impression is that these orchestras usually make a big point of saying that you don't actually have to have taken any exams.

It's nice not to have to put the teacher to trouble though, and to feel you really can prove the point independently of those who might be prejudiced!

P.S. I don't suppose lack of the grade 8 certificate, by itself, explains why she didn't get in!

Yes this year they are asking for an upload of the mark sheet - still a letter from the teacher will suffice also, so that's not changed..

Oh that's so frustrating! One of my pupils is going for it this year, and got 134 for grade 8 last year. Ok it's a decent mark but about 5-10 marks below what he deserved, not only that but many of the comments are both rude and untrue, a shockingly scathing report for a grade 8 distinction. I didn't complain formally because I didn't really think I had much of a case complaining about a pupil not getting as high a distinction as I wanted. However so many other teachers did complain about him that that session that I heard from the steward that there was an inquest and it looked like he might lose his job, so that reassured me that I was right in my view of the result. Still we had just happily moved on, celebrating that he got his grade 8 distinction and that nobody was likely to read this insulting report. Hopefully it won't influence their view too much and as soon as they hear him play they will revise their opinion!

[Ayshah]

... for the NYO application they ask for a copy of your exam mark sheet.

Has this changed? Last year they were asking for a copy of the grade 8 certificate (rather than mark sheet, I think) OR a letter from teacher confirming the auditionee was grade 8 distinction standard (which is what we provided). My impression is that these orchestras usually make a big point of saying that you don't actually have to have taken any exams.

It's nice not to have to put the teacher to trouble though, and to feel you really can prove the point independently of those who might be prejudiced!

P.S. I don't suppose lack of the grade 8 certificate, by itself, explains why she didn't get in!

Yes this year they are asking for an upload of the mark sheet - still a letter from the teacher will suffice also, so that's not changed..

Oh that's so frustrating! One of my pupils is going for it this year, and got 134 for grade 8 last year. Ok it's a decent mark but about 5-10 marks below what he deserved, not only that but many of the comments are both rude and untrue, a shockingly scathing report for a grade 8 distinction. I didn't complain formally because I didn't really think I had much of a case complaining about a pupil not getting as high a distinction as I wanted. However so many other teachers did complain about him that that session that I heard from the steward that there was an inquest and it looked like he might lose his job, so that reassured me that I was right in my view of the result. Still we had just happily moved on, celebrating that he got his grade 8 distinction and that nobody was likely to read this insulting report. Hopefully it won't influence their view too much and as soon as they hear him play they will revise their opinion!

Oh that sounds really unpleasant! Especially if you have to use the comment sheet and therein lies the rude remarks. I can understand the request for the mark sheet as it gives the detailed information that the certificate just doesnt. But if the remarks are unkind at that level, i personally feel thats just mean. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Why would any examiner want to record such negative comments (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Chris H]

That is very unfair, and perhaps you should write a covering letter for your pupil. I think it is awful that an examiner would write negative comments like that for a distinction.

[Yet another muso]

That is very unfair, and perhaps you should write a covering letter for your pupil. I think it is awful that an examiner would write negative comments like that for a distinction.

Well he really is an exceptional pupil - already principal flute with his county orchestra by the age of 14 and always gets amazing feedback in competitions which made the report all the more shocking, and as I accompanied his exam I know he played his best. I hope NYO ask for a teacher reference, I will just write a really good one to balance it out, and might possibly refer to the comments on the mark form not reflecting his standard. As I said once they hear him they should realise!

[VH2]

It's all very well saying that a grade 8 distinction it doesn't matter

I have never thought that it does not matter. I think it is a shame that it does matter, and that the exam boards have developed a system of three levels of pass in the Grade exams.

If there was only pass or fail, what do you think should be the pass mark? What about other exams with a range of pass grades - GCSEs, A levels, degrees?

If it were pass/fail there'd be no need for a mark.

You would receive a written report on the performance, which would show you where you needed to improve, and a PASS or FAIL categorization for each component of the exam. You would also be required to pass all components to get an overall pass (as is now the case with the Diploma exams, but not in the Grade exams, where well played pieces can compensate for inferior oral skills and dodgy scales (or vice versa).

I have no opinion on other kinds of exam as I do not teach GCSE/A-level/degree subjects, and I am unlikely ever to take such exams again myself.