Repeats in Grade 2 Piano pieces Options

[VerityG]

Hi,
I'm new to teaching and I've inherited a pupil who's doing Suite de la r?jouissance (A:1) and has an AB structure but with the repeats is AABBA. The syllabus says not to do repeats more than a few bars but it's only two lines. Though I am thinking about the overall timing.
Secondly, I just what a bit of confirmation that I'm doing the right thing. I've been trying to get her focus on thinking 3-4-3 fingering for all of her scales but she told me that her previous teaching had told her to do 4-3-4 and have an extra finger left over for F major. I can understand why, as it's an awkward stretch but it's confusing all her other scales too so I asked her to try doing all of the scales with the same fingering for a week and if that helps then stick to it, if not then we can go back. But she didn't look to convinced. It's a bit of an awkward situation as the previous teacher had a very laid back view of teaching that led to the pupil failing grade 2 as the girl needs a bit of a firmer hand to direct her. I don't think it's professional to criticise another teacher so I've tried to show the mother the way I do things and gently say that different methods suit different people but it's been a bit difficult to make it sound neutral. The mother is very upset now that she has investigated a bit further into the previous teacher and the examination process and realised how much wasn't done. I think she's upset on her daughter behalf only the pupil seems to have got on really well with the previous teacher and is getting quiet upset with hearing her mother's rants. I'm trying not to say anything negative about the previous teacher in the lessons but things like the scales issue above, if I suggest she does something different to what her previous teacher did then she seems to take it to heart.
I was thinking of talking gently to the pupil next week and say that different teachers use different methods, just because they are different doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't mean that I'm criticising her previous teacher. Then adding that although it's hard to hear her mother rant about the previous teacher, she's only doing it as she's hurt on her daughter's behalf, it's what mothers do!
But is this overstepping the mark?
Sorry, this post turned into something completely different to what it was originally about! But some advice from more experienced teachers about coping with previous teachers would be appreciated!
X

[swimmyfishy]

I would recommend purchasing the ABRSM Grade 2 Scale book.

[Seer_Green]

I'm a little bit confused on both your points...sorry!

As for the A piece, my feeling is that none of the repeat marks are necessary in this piece for exam purposes, so just play straight through beginning to end missing the 1st time bar then observe the DC al fine at the end (which is required). I suppose this would make it straightforward ABA. It would be too long at Grade 2 with the repeats in my opinion.

As for the scales, from what you describe, the previous teacher was correct about F major being 1234 123 etc. in the RH (no use of 5th finger). This is different to the normal 123 1234 pattern. As the pupil progresses through the grades, there's going to be a lot of scales which don't follow the normal pattern. F major is very difficult to play smoothly with the normal pattern. Of course, in the exam, you can do any fingering you like if you can achieve the desired effect, though I think it's pretty difficult to do with F major. If you or they haven't got one, I'd definitely get the actual scale book so you can check the fingering. So close to the exam though, I'm not sure I'd dwell on this too much.

Sorry if I've misunderstood (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

As for previous teachers, move on as positively and quickly as possible. It's in no one's interest to continue this rant, least of all the pupil themselves. Whilst I'm always interested in what pupils have done with other teachers, I think you have to be quite forceful that this is the way you do things, and stick to it.

[chraze1]

I would recommend purchasing the ABRSM Grade 2 Scale book.

Absolutely agree with this!
Take the time to show her the fingering in the book, and explain that you understand she felt very comfortable with her last teacher, but unfortunately some crucial things have been overlooked and as a result it's part of the reason she failed the last exam.
I think given some time to adjust she'll be fine with you, you sound like you have a great approach!

I had 3 pupils play the same A piece at the last exam session and no-one did the repeat, (but you must observe the Da Capo al Fine)!
Bar 27 should feed straight into the last bar (No 2./second time) so ignore No.1/first time! Hope that helps!
They all passed! two with merit and one decent pass!

Good luck.

[maggiemay]

It is always tricky taking over a pupil midway through the exam process.

Is the exam this term? if so, it's damage limitation time, and If your pupil's scales are even moderately fluent, then I might be tempted to go with it for now. I would probably only agonise over the fingering if it is really getting in the way.

With Suite de la R, my understanding is that you do the da capo but not the repeats. (as others have said!)
I would gently try to discourage mum from ranting - it's not helping, even if it is justified, and if it is upsetting your pupil it is only making things worse. Your line about different methods is a good one: there are many fingerings that work for scales, and as long as they sound ok, the examiner will not be looking over the pupil's shoulder to see exactly what she's doing.

If the exam is not this term, and you have more time, you may have time to do things your preferred way.
Not an easy situation, and not one that I would relish! Good luck.

[dolce@piano]

Have you seen her grade 2 mark sheet ?

What did she fail on ? What were the comments ?

Is she playing the same pieces ?

If she passed her scales previously, and other things were a bigger problem, and if the exam's coming up this term, I would go with the flow with scales for the moment (as maggiemay said) and tackle that can of worms later.

And, yes, just ABA for the Dacquin, four lines plus two lines for the DC.

[lorraineliyanage]

As far as I know, the scale book says the fingerings given are suggestions only, so you could point out that there is more than one way to play them that will still produce a pleasing sound. You could show her your preferred way and say that is how you teach your students as you find it is the optimum method.

You are picking up a new student from an unfortunate point where it could be very difficult to correct habits that she has acquired over a longer period of time. Hopefully if she can get through this graded exam then you can start afresh afterwards with your way of teaching!

I've entered quite a few playing Daquin and we haven't done the repeats, just the DC.

[sbhoa]

As far as I know, the scale book says the fingerings given are suggestions only, so you could point out that there is more than one way to play them that will still produce a pleasing sound. You could show her your preferred way and say that is how you teach your students as you find it is the optimum method.

It's the result that is marked, not the method.
The important thing is consistency. As long as it's a system that works and is the same every time it's ok.
I'm actually working on some slightly different fingering for arpeggios with a student of mine. Not what I was taught but it works and makes sense.

[porilo]

I agree with most of the above, apart from the ABRSM scale book which I find absolutely awful. My recommendation would be the "Scale Time" book by David Turnbull. I really love this series of books because it has notes and also pictures of the keyboard with arrows and fingering. All my pupils find this book very easy and comfortable to use. As the syllabus says, you don't have to stick to the stated fingering. I think the wording is something like "any reasonable fingering is allowable" but personally I always teach from the recommended fingering. Don't do what Isidor Phillip did and play every single 2 octave scale (even ones starting on black notes), 123451234512345!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[lorraineliyanage]

Porilo - Thanks for the tip about David Turnbull's book, I had a look in the music shop yesterday and it looks good, will definitely recommend it to my students. It makes a nice change from the usual scale books!

[jenny]

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that you want your pupil to use basic fingering (123, 1234, 123, 12345) for F major? Or maybe I misunderstood?