Students with health conditions Options

[Arundodonuts]

Might be worth asking him to take up swimming first to see how he copes holding his breath for long periods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I wasn't aware that playing any wind instrument involved holding your breath. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

That's what I was thinking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

In France, if you want to do any sort of activity (probably even sax playing) you need a signed doctor's certificate less than 12 months old.

Eh? Who do you have to show it to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Seer_Green]

Might be worth asking him to take up swimming first to see how he copes holding his breath for long periods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I wasn't aware that playing any wind instrument involved holding your breath. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

That's what I was thinking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Me too, but maybe I've been doing it wrong for the past 18 years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

In answer to the OP, I don't think this is anything you should be concerned about. The people I've know who've had this sort of treatment are far more lively after it than they ever were before! I would treat them the same as any other pupil and see how it goes.

[Arundodonuts]

In answer to the OP, I don't think this is anything you should be concerned about. The people I've know who've had this sort of treatment are far more lively after it than they ever were before! I would treat them the same as any other pupil and see how it goes.

That's a good point. Playing winds seems to have health benefits rather than causing issues. Rather like people finding sport helps control their asthma.

[GMc]

In general major heart surgery (bypass or new valve typically) makes you better! Maybe not 100% if you have previously had a big infarct etc but in anaesthesia we like the ones who have had surgery much, much better than the ones that haven't. Far safer.

I would be very surprised if this student turned up short of breath (you would hardly want to play sax if you were puffing at rest would you?). So overt heart failure sounds very unlikely. Ask if they can walk up a flight of stairs without stopping. If they can, I am sure all will be well. That's easier than asking them to swim up and down although swimming is good rehab. You may even find that they are tramping 5km every day as part of their recovery.

Dont worry, I have been in medicine since 1982 and the only normalish looking person to keel over and arrest in front of me was on a treadmill doing a stress test and refused to get off when I said they needed to when tehir ECG showed changes. Just as I turned down the speed and hill slope they conked out and shot off the back of the treadmill. And I spend all day, everyday with pretty ill people. Oops, no I tell a lie. I once turned round in the anaesthetic room with syringe in hand about to induce anaesthesia to find that my normalish for 101 years old fractured hip had died. If it had been 1 min later we would all have blamed the anaesthetic!

[Norway]

Hi all, I've had an enquiry from a mature student, complete beginner, who wants to learn sax but they tell me they have had major heart surgery, but have been told that they have had the medical go ahead to learn to play. I have a real fear of something going wrong while they are in my lesson....should I be worried? Should I get them to put it in writing that they've been given the okay? Help! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Only replying because I have a friend who had major heart surgery, and is completely active in all respects (we went on a couple of ski trips together) post-surgery. It depends very much on the kind of surgery they had and what condition it was for. My friend is completely "fixed" and though he has to have regular checkups, you could not tell that he had such major heart surgery unless he shows you his scar.

I agree - it totally depends what was wrong. The decision to learn the sax is the adult student's responsibility, but it is pretty physically demanding (possibly more so than non players realise) and I can understand why you are worried. The fact that they have kind of shared that responsibility by telling you suggests that they might be anxious themselves and feel they need to warn you in case anything goes wrong. (Thus putting you in a bit of a spot!) Your learner may not like this idea, but why not suggest doing the descant recorder to start off with? It's a great way to make music, and you could point out that by doing this the person could learn breath control, finger dexterity and notation reading, (maybe just mention that it is considered a serious instrument, and is not just for junior school children). They could move on to the sax later, if all was well. Good luck anyway!

[anacrusis]

urgh no, the last thing we need is people learning the descant so they can go on to a "proper" instrument later....

Health problems have been declared, verdict from medics is goforit, so do. End of.

[Norway]

urgh no, the last thing we need is people learning the descant so they can go on to a "proper" instrument later....

Health problems have been declared, verdict from medics is goforit, so do. End of.

I actually teach the recorder - this is my sneaky way of getting converts!

[Hils]

I actually teach the recorder - this is my sneaky way of getting converts!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Any uptick since Young Musician?

[Norway]

I actually teach the recorder - this is my sneaky way of getting converts!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Any uptick since Young Musician?

Not yet, but wasn't that girl wonderful - from the moment she started playing I was transfixed! Gorgeous playing! Sorry, this is so off topic - maybe we should start a thread about the young musician competition as it was so interesting and made me feel so inadequate (but in a good and "so proud of the youngsters" kind of way!)

[Cyrilla]

Sorry, this is so off topic - maybe we should start a thread about the young musician competition as it was so interesting and made me feel so inadequate (but in a good and "so proud of the youngsters" kind of way!)

There is already a thread on YMOTY in the General Forum.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Norway]

Sorry, this is so off topic - maybe we should start a thread about the young musician competition as it was so interesting and made me feel so inadequate (but in a good and "so proud of the youngsters" kind of way!)

There is already a thread on YMOTY in the General Forum.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks very much Cyrilla!

[RoseRodent]

You risk breaking the law in turning the student down. If you make a living from your teaching then the law deems you to be a service provider. If you turn this person down purely on health grounds and there is no reason for a clinical specialist to be worried it would be unsafe to proceed then you are "Providing a lesser or no service on account of disability" which is against the law. You are not expected to know anything extra here. The law only requires you to make Reasonable Adjustments, which would include simple and inexpensive things like allowing breaks when required but would not involve anything complex. Saying no puts you at greater risk than saying yes, and I'm afraid the law doesn't find your unease about the situation to be any defence to legal action if the student decided to sue you for discrimination. It is exactly because of being turned down for these sorts of 'reasons' that legislation had to be drafted.

You don't need to do or know anything special, ask the student how they would like to be dealt with if they feel unwell in a minor way so that you don't fuss around or panic. In my case, for example, I am prone to falling over and usually use a wheelchair. I tend to play sitting down, but if for whatever reason I need to move around on crutches I tell people that there is nothing helpful they can do if I start to fall down and they are more likely to injure me and themselves by trying to help, so the best thing to do is look at me sympathetically while I fall down. I don't want people to panic if I keel over, but I can't stop them doing so if they decide to over-react, but the law doesn't let the fact that they feel uncomfortable when I fall down be a reason for them to get rid of me. If the student is majorly unwell you call an ambulance exactly as you would do if a previously healthy student keeled over clutching at his heart. At that point it would be reasonable in law to require a medical certificate to take the student back, and if it happened twice you would be on good legal ground to terminate, but I don't imagine for one moment it would happen even once.

[carol*piano]

If you turn this person down purely on health grounds and there is no reason for a clinical specialist to be worried it would be unsafe to proceed then you are "Providing a lesser or no service on account of disability" which is against the law. You are not expected to know anything extra here. The law only requires you to make Reasonable Adjustments, which would include simple and inexpensive things like allowing breaks when required but would not involve anything complex. Saying no puts you at greater risk than saying yes, and I'm afraid the law doesn't find your unease about the situation to be any defence to legal action if the student decided to sue you for discrimination.

This is legislation taken to a ridiculous extreme. If someone feels uncomfortable giving lessons to someone else, for whatever reason, it is surely better for everyone that the pupil moves on to a different teacher.

[RoseRodent]

This is legislation taken to a ridiculous extreme. If someone feels uncomfortable giving lessons to someone else, for whatever reason, it is surely better for everyone that the pupil moves on to a different teacher.

Couldn't disagree more, I feel that if someone isn't comfortable teaching a particular person for an unjustified reason it's better for everyone concerned that the teacher moves on to a different attitude.

Let us place ourselves into some similar very likely situations from the past which we would hopefully squirm at today.

"I'm uncomfortable teaching a black student, I don't know any and I've never had one before. The student tells me he's just like everyone else but what if he expects me to know about jazz and blues or rap music and I don't know anything?"

"I don't teach women, they are no good at the tuba, they are too small and weak and delicate"

"Working class kids don't need to learn anything because they never amount to anything anyway"

"Disabled people don't need education, what will they do with it anyway?"

All the bits of protective legislation were brought in to stop people from saying that disabled pupils have to move to accommodate the teachers, the teacher must accommodate the disabled pupil. Is as much as part of the business as paying tax and national insurance, you don't have to like it, but you do have to abide by it.

[Seer_Green]

If you turn this person down purely on health grounds and there is no reason for a clinical specialist to be worried it would be unsafe to proceed then you are "Providing a lesser or no service on account of disability" which is against the law. You are not expected to know anything extra here. The law only requires you to make Reasonable Adjustments, which would include simple and inexpensive things like allowing breaks when required but would not involve anything complex. Saying no puts you at greater risk than saying yes, and I'm afraid the law doesn't find your unease about the situation to be any defence to legal action if the student decided to sue you for discrimination.

This is legislation taken to a ridiculous extreme. If someone feels uncomfortable giving lessons to someone else, for whatever reason, it is surely better for everyone that the pupil moves on to a different teacher.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
If I felt uncomfortable teaching someone then I wouldn't do it. I recently turned down a potential pupil who was very autistic - I have no experience of it, no skills in managing it and no knowledge of teaching someone with it - am I discriminating because of their 'disability' - yes, because I don't have the required skills to meet their needs. Some pupils/parents decide not to choose me as a teacher - maybe they're discriminating against me because of my poor eyesight or my fibromylagia? If we got to the stage where we had to teach everyone that came our way for fear of being accused of discriminating against them, then I reckon it's time to give up teaching...and I wouldn't be the only one.

In this case, the OP may feel that the combination of the intrument the pupil wishes to learn along with their health condition is something which they don't feel they have the necessary skills to deal with. They should be free to make that decision on the basis they're not the right teacher for that pupil.