Reluctant pupil, What would you do? Options

[Norway]

I teach a 7 year old boy who on my arrival at the first lesson, was arguing with his father about having the lessons in the first place. In subsequent lessons, we've had mucking around, every excuse not to play, and last week, when I arrived, he'd placed a kitchen timer on the piano to count down the lesson time (one of the parents was present at the start, and didn't ask him what that was for - so I told him to get rid of it). I mentioned to the parents that perhaps the piano wasn't for him but they said maybe not, but they wanted him to learn it anyway. I also teach his older brother who is really keen - I'd like to continue with him, but am pretty annoyed about the timer incident. Any thoughts?

[Scooby Doo]

I'd give it one more week (3 lessons in total?) and if things don't improve, just be honest with the parents and say that he isn't ready for lessons yet and you don't want to put him off by persisting with something that he so obviously isn't enjoying. You could suggest that they look for a group music activity for him first and then try again with individual lessons when he seems ready.

[Norway]

Thanks Scooby Doo. They are VERY determined that he is going to have lessons no matter what - so I'll just have to stand my ground. He has had about a term of lessons, and I can't face another one, so I'll get on the phone tomorrow!

[Scooby Doo]

Ok, you have had plenty of time with him, and clearly things aren't improving, so stay strong and make it clear that this is not negotiable!

Know the feeling - I had a "can't spend another moment in the company of this pupil" moment earlier this week. Life is too short to dread lessons.

[Misterioso]

Thanks Scooby Doo. They are VERY determined that he is going to have lessons no matter what - so I'll just have to stand my ground. He has had about a term of lessons, and I can't face another one, so I'll get on the phone tomorrow!

I had a parent like that. Alarm bells rang as soon as I answered the phone to the father's initial enquiry: "I think it would be nice if little Johnny played fiddle tunes". I asked if little Johnny thought so too, and the father sounded quite surprised, and said "Oh - I don't know; I haven't asked him!"

We had about half a term's worth of lessons, and finally I explained to the parents that he was too young for one-to-one lessons, wasn't enjoying them, etc etc. Mum said that they still wanted him to do it, and I agreed to give it another try on the condition that she sat in on the next lesson. That was all it took - she could see that it was never going to work, and (thankfully) took him away.

Norway, I know how demoralising it is when you have students like this, and how depressing it can be dreading Monday, or Tuesday, or whatever the lesson day is. You say that mum sat in on the start of the lesson - but have you tried asking her to stay for the whole thing? She might get the fuller picture if she did. But no matter how determined the parents are, you don't have to teach him! If they are determined to waste their money on something that this lad doesn't want, they will have to do it with another teacher. Don't put up with any more kitchen timer incidents.

[Norway]

Thanks Scooby Doo. They are VERY determined that he is going to have lessons no matter what - so I'll just have to stand my ground. He has had about a term of lessons, and I can't face another one, so I'll get on the phone tomorrow!

I had a parent like that. Alarm bells rang as soon as I answered the phone to the father's initial enquiry: "I think it would be nice if little Johnny played fiddle tunes". I asked if little Johnny thought so too, and the father sounded quite surprised, and said "Oh - I don't know; I haven't asked him!"

We had about half a term's worth of lessons, and finally I explained to the parents that he was too young for one-to-one lessons, wasn't enjoying them, etc etc. Mum said that they still wanted him to do it, and I agreed to give it another try on the condition that she sat in on the next lesson. That was all it took - she could see that it was never going to work, and (thankfully) took him away.

Norway, I know how demoralising it is when you have students like this, and how depressing it can be dreading Monday, or Tuesday, or whatever the lesson day is. You say that mum sat in on the start of the lesson - but have you tried asking her to stay for the whole thing? She might get the fuller picture if she did. But no matter how determined the parents are, you don't have to teach him! If they are determined to waste their money on something that this lad doesn't want, they will have to do it with another teacher. Don't put up with any more kitchen timer incidents.

Thanks very much for your support. The mum hasn't sat in on lessons, but is always in the next room and the door is open, so she knows what is going on, and occasionally shouts in bribes and threats! She is actually trying hard to be very supportive, but she probably knows herself that my tolerance is being tested. I've run out of strategies, and struggle to fill the time as the lad won't try anything properly - definitly time to make the phone call!

[BadStrad]

It occurs to me that maybe the boy isn't keen because of his brother. As a teacher I've often seen kids with older siblings who are considered good/gifted/talented/clever/blah blah blah at some subject or other and it's hugely demotivating for the younger kid to be compared to the older child and his/her success. So much so that the only way to win is to not compete, so no homework for that subject, no trying, nothing - then their "failure" is their choice and not down to not being as "good" as the older child.

If that might be the case, maybe a different instrument would help salve the parents' "need" for him to have music lessons and make it easier for the boy to find his own (musical) niche. Or maybe he just doesn't want to compete musically - at all.

[barncottagecat]

It occurs to me that maybe the boy isn't keen because of his brother. As a teacher I've often seen kids with older siblings who are considered good/gifted/talented/clever/blah blah blah at some subject or other and it's hugely demotivating for the younger kid to be compared to the older child and his/her success. So much so that the only way to win is to not compete, so no homework for that subject, no trying, nothing - then their "failure" is their choice and not down to not being as "good" as the older child.

If that might be the case, maybe a different instrument would help salve the parents' "need" for him to have music lessons and make it easier for the boy to find his own (musical) niche. Or maybe he just doesn't want to compete musically - at all.

Badstrad what you describe is exactly what happened with my children. When my son was seven he had a few piano lessons, played up, was a complete pain.... eventually worked out that the problem was that his comparatively perfect sister was way ahead of him, and it made him feel as though he was rubbish, so he acted up.

Stopped piano, started cello and now it's fine - it's his thing and there is no comparison. It strikes me Norway that if Badstad is right, it would be a very good way of explaining the situation to the parents - it's not uncommon etc...

[Norway]

It occurs to me that maybe the boy isn't keen because of his brother. As a teacher I've often seen kids with older siblings who are considered good/gifted/talented/clever/blah blah blah at some subject or other and it's hugely demotivating for the younger kid to be compared to the older child and his/her success. So much so that the only way to win is to not compete, so no homework for that subject, no trying, nothing - then their "failure" is their choice and not down to not being as "good" as the older child.

If that might be the case, maybe a different instrument would help salve the parents' "need" for him to have music lessons and make it easier for the boy to find his own (musical) niche. Or maybe he just doesn't want to compete musically - at all.

Good point. The older brother excels at everything he does, and it must be hard for the younger lad to find his niche. He is a nice boy, and is certainly not unmusical, but I'm not sure that he is ready for individual lessons, or that he wants to learn an instrument at all. I'm more comfortable teaching older children and adults and am not sure that I have the people skills to turn this one around (comfort zone exceeded and ideas exhausted!)

[maggiemay]

It seems standard in some families for the younger children to follow on with what the older ones are doing - the opportunity is there (especially in the case of piano or keyboard) and 'we know the teacher' - but there's no particular reason that it's the right thing for the child. It does sound in this case as though the child is not ready, or not interested, or possibly a bit of both. If it were my pupil I would give it a try for a month (it's my usual 'trial period' anyway) and then decline to continue - for the moment.

I have an opposite example of the sibling-following-on issue at the moment - the younger child has overtaken an older one. Younger Child scored distinction in grade 1 last term and is fast heading towards grade 2: Older Child has been learning much longer, and is plodding towards grade 1, and is getting there, but in tiny steps. Both are doing fine in their way, and I am anxious not to discourage either of them - maybe this is a discussion for another thread.

Norway - I wouldn't be coerced by the parents into continuing with this one. Tell them he's not getting anything out of it, and they will put him off music for life if you try to push it. Good luck!

[hammer action]

Oh what a cheeky little ###!! Sounds like his parents need to give him a clip round the ear! I'd be absolutely enraged if a child put a timer on the piano to count down the lesson. If i were you i'd terminate the lessons without delay as it sounds like you've done your best but the boy just isn't interested whatsoever. As someone else replied, life is too short to dread a particular lesson. Oh the nerve! Honestly!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Edit: Oops, i didn't swear above but my word has been censored anyway. Feel free to insert your own!

[Impressionist]

It occurs to me that maybe the boy isn't keen because of his brother. As a teacher I've often seen kids with older siblings who are considered good/gifted/talented/clever/blah blah blah at some subject or other and it's hugely demotivating for the younger kid to be compared to the older child and his/her success.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) My parents were always careful to steer my sister and me into different areas within the same field e.g. she did ballet, I did tap (I had two left feet, couldn't do the graceful bit and still can't!); although we both learnt piano my older sister learnt clarinet and I learnt cello and then flute. We weren't directly competing and could develop at our own pace.

So far I've not had any problems with younger siblings as they all seem keen but I will bear this one in mind! Norway I'd go with the other advice and tell the parents to try another instrument if he wants to pursue music, but if he doesn't then he needs to find another creative outlet.

[Norway]

Oh what a cheeky little ###!! Sounds like his parents need to give him a clip round the ear! I'd be absolutely enraged if a child put a timer on the piano to count down the lesson. If i were you i'd terminate the lessons without delay as it sounds like you've done your best but the boy just isn't interested whatsoever. As someone else replied, life is too short to dread a particular lesson. Oh the nerve! Honestly!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Edit: Oops, i didn't swear above but my word has been censored anyway. Feel free to insert your own!

I must say that similar sentiments went through my head, Hammer Action! If I'd treated my teacher like that as a child, I wouldn't have been sitting down for a fortnight! What amazed me however was that parent knew the timer was there, and did nothing about it! It does however give me a cast iron reason for not continuing the lessons!

[Susie]

he'd placed a kitchen timer on the piano to count down the lesson time (one of the parents was present at the start, and didn't ask him what that was for - so I told him to get rid of it).

I have one like this in school. Told me one day that it was 1 o'clock and the end of the lesson. She'd been studying the clock at regular intervals. I offered a suitable riposte. The next week, by chance I was in school early. I found the opportunity to alter the clock by 20 minutes or so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (I altered it back afterwards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

[Norway]

he'd placed a kitchen timer on the piano to count down the lesson time (one of the parents was present at the start, and didn't ask him what that was for - so I told him to get rid of it).

I have one like this in school. Told me one day that it was 1 o'clock and the end of the lesson. She'd been studying the clock at regular intervals. I offered a suitable riposte. The next week, by chance I was in school early. I found the opportunity to alter the clock by 20 minutes or so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (I altered it back afterwards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

Oh good one Susie! Next week, why not take the battery out!