Jubilee Weekend, What are you up to? Options

[Aquarelle]

I've just had a quick read through of this thread and it makes me very sad to see how many people don't care or are anti the Jublilee. I haven't the time or the energy to explain this evening what I think the value of the monarchy is. All I will say is that I am not a fervant flag waver or nationalist but I do know what living in a republic is like - and I am very sorry that many of the British people don't even seem to know what they have got, what it means and how, throughout history it has affected our nation.

Of course it isn't all good, of course there are criticsms to make but I for one am a supporter of the constitutional monarchy. There is nothing wrong with informed criticsm of any of the British institutions but to say that all the Queen has done is to live leaves me open mouthed because I think it is to put it politely a not very well informed conclusion.

And I am not going to run away and hide. This time I assume what I say and I will stand up and be counted.
It isn't exaclty my fault that I find myself an expatriot and I am very keen on my "second" country but one day I hope to come home - and I hope it will still be to a monarchy.

I'll be watching everything I can about the Jubilee on television. Judging by this thread it seems to be of greater interest outside than inside England.

[barry-clari]

I've just had a quick read through of this thread and it makes me very sad to see how many people don't care or are anti the Jublilee. I haven't the time or the energy to explain this evening what I think the value of the monarchy is. All I will say is that I am not a fervant flag waver or nationalist but I do know what living in a republic is like - and I am very sorry that many of the British people don't even seem to know what they have got, what it means and how, throughout history it has affected our nation.

Hope you didn't get the impression I was anti-Jubilee : I went to see the Queen open the Cutty Sark a few weeks ago, and got very unnaturally excited (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[anacrusis]

Not so much anti- as quite frankly completely indifferent. And incomprehending of the giving of some special status and obscene levels of funding for an institution which is not representative of the rest of us - I can't grasp why, for instance, there need be all that bowing and scraping and obsequiousness for no other reason than someone being the offspring of someone else: whatever that person may have done in their life, the fact remains that their worth is being determined by that, rather than any achievements.

A bad experience of a republic doesn't justify the iniquities of a monarchy either surely? My thought is that then both need changing....

[mcm]

Not so much anti- as quite frankly completely indifferent. And incomprehending of the giving of some special status and obscene levels of funding for an institution which is not representative of the rest of us - I can't grasp why, for instance, there need be all that bowing and scraping and obsequiousness for no other reason than someone being the offspring of someone else: whatever that person may have done in their life, the fact remains that their worth is being determined by that, rather than any achievements.

A bad experience of a republic doesn't justify the iniquities of a monarchy either surely? My thought is that then both need changing....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Tenor Viol]

I am going to steer well clear of any further comments above as there is no point - we have our various views and they're unlikely to change. All I will say is that as a natin we ought to learn to be more comfortable with celebrating things - we lost most of our heritage with the inconoclasm of the mid C17th.

Saturday morning I have usual orchestra rehearsal, I then have to hot-foot it over to Malpas and put my choir hat on and rehearse for jubilee concert that evening (Bach Magnificat, Mozart Gran Partita, Parry I was glad - full orchestra / wind band for first two, organ for last).

Sunday evening play at a jubilee concert followed by firework display in a village near Chester.

[Aquarelle]

It is easy to be glib and dismissive about the monarchy. If anyone seriously doesn?t know what the monarchy stands for in Britain, or thinks they are just a group of rich sycophants far removed from the rest of us I would suggest a look at the official website of the British monarchy. This site, of course, presents the monarchy in a positive light which some might find biased but it is very clear and informative on the various functions of the monarch in relation to government, to the nation and to its various institutions.

It is silly to scoff at a form of government which has for centuries helped to maintain the British nation in relative peace and national unity. I say relative because I know very well that this has not been 100% the case and as soon as one makes a statement concerning peace and national unity one can think of many situations where this has been far from the case. But we cannot lay all these things at the door of the monarchy ? nor necessarily at the door of the various elected governments. The fact remains that however imperfect a system of government, anarchy is worse.

The most common forms of government in the world today are constitutional monarchies, democratic republics and dictatorships. The system of constitutional monarchy has certain advantages. It roots a country in its history and after all, we are what are because of our ability or otherwise to learn from the past. It provides a focal point for the nation despite the winds of political change. Under certain circumstances it retains a residual power which enables countries to avoid falling victim to political extremes. It releases the head of government from the duties of head of state. (And that is by no means a small point!)

The monarchy, like every other human institution is made up of human beings, and they, like the rest of us have their weak points as well as their strong ones. Our present Queen has done the old fashioned and sometimes ridiculed thing of devoting her life to the service of the nation. She happens to believe that she has a calling and she has done her best to respond. It may be old hat in the eyes of some but she has contributed enormously to the stability of the nation. She is the daughter of a king who refused to leave his capital city during the bombing of London and stayed to support and rally his people in a time of very great suffering. As a young woman she pledged her life to the nation and she has always put the nation before her own interests and those of her family. She has tried to live by what she believes the monarchy should stand for and she has seen it through all kinds of vicissitudes. Of course she is a child of her time, of course times have changed, of course some things that were not acceptable sixty years ago have moved on but one thing she hasn?t done is to throw out the baby with the bathwater (sorry I am quoting myself on an earlier thread but I think the figure of speech is relevant.)

During her reign Elisabeth ll has made mistakes but she has brought the constitutional monarchy as a system through some difficult times and has helped to modernize it without destroying it. Her life is a strange one. She wasn?t even born to it in the first place. She didn?t choose it. She has risen to its demands as well as any human being could and better than most. In exchange for palaces and riches she has had to sacrifice personal freedom. She cannot go just where she likes when she likes and has never been able to. She cannot move without being in the public eye. She cannot express a political opinion and what pressures she may have brought to bear upon the dozen or so prime ministers who have governed in her name we may never know. But we do know that she asked Margaret Thatcher to be less abusive in her treatment of the miners. We do know that she has fulfilled diplomatic function after diplomatic function often smoothing the way for the politicians whom we have elected to do their work. She has supported countless charities and rewarded the efforts of countless people. She has set an example to the nation by her unfailing devotion to her task . She is an intelligent woman with a sense of duty, a deep feeling for what is best in our history and tradition, an eye for the present, a care the future and a respect for our institutions and for her people.

I wish her a very Happy Jubilee in which I hope the vast majority of the British people will share.

[lottie]

- I can't grasp why, for instance, there need be all that bowing and scraping and obsequiousness for no other reason than someone being the offspring of someone else: whatever that person may have done in their life, the fact remains that their worth is being determined by that, rather than any achievements.

Actually Aquarelle I agree with pretty much everything you said and I didn't mean to be glib. I do value to a degree the history and heritage of the Monarchy despite the financial cost to the country and I think our Queen has behaved well in her role. Good on her for endurance but I will not be changing my life to celebrate that this weekend because I have far more relevant things on which to spend my time. But what a nice excuse for little kiddies to wave flags and eat cake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do admire the Queen for her behaviour over her 60 years 'in charge'. The new generation seem to have shouldered their responsibility well too and I'm sure will continue her good work.


However, after the life I have led there is NOT ONE PERSON I would EVER bow or curtsey to as anacrusis says above unless it was my OWN choice based on my own values. I'm afraid that does not include the Royal family!

[Crotchetymum]

- I can't grasp why, for instance, there need be all that bowing and scraping and obsequiousness for no other reason than someone being the offspring of someone else: whatever that person may have done in their life, the fact remains that their worth is being determined by that, rather than any achievements.

Actually Aquarelle I agree with pretty much everything you said and I didn't mean to be glib. I do value to a degree the history and heritage of the Monarchy despite the financial cost to the country and I think our Queen has behaved well in her role. Good on her for endurance but I will not be changing my life to celebrate that this weekend because I have far more relevant things on which to spend my time. But what a nice excuse for little kiddies to wave flags and eat cake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do admire the Queen for her behaviour over her 60 years 'in charge'. The new generation seem to have shouldered their responsibility well too and I'm sure will continue her good work.


However, after the life I have led there is NOT ONE PERSON I would EVER bow or curtsey to as anacrusis says above unless it was my OWN choice based on my own values. I'm afraid that does not include the Royal family!

I would tend to agree with this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've been informed by my family that I am attending the Jubilee picnic on Sunday, and so I will take my teapot and a cake with good grace. And sit with my other Bah Humbug friend who has been given the same orders by her family (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It's bad timing for me, as the only part of the Jubilee celebrations I really want to see is the Flotilla - the Belfry Barge alone sounds amazing.

[corenfa]

As someone from somewhere else in the world with a constitutional monarchy, where the constitutional monarchs have truly misbehaved themselves, it is quite refreshing to see one that actually has tried to devote her life towards serving her country.

(I'm much more bah humbug about the Olympics)

I probably won't participate in any of the Jubilee activities as I am allergic to crowds, but I might catch some of it on telly.

[maggiemay]

As someone from somewhere else in the world with a constitutional monarchy, where the constitutional monarchs have truly misbehaved themselves, it is quite refreshing to see one that actually has tried to devote her life towards actually serving her country.

(I'm much more bah humbug about the Olympics)

I probably won't participate in any of the Jubilee activities as I am allergic to crowds, but I might catch some of it on telly.

Thanks for that, Corenfa.
I feel the same about HM ( - and I have to admit to enjoying the refreshing candour of the Dook! )

Plus I identify pretty closely with your last two sentences.

[Cyrilla]

But what a nice excuse for little kiddies to wave flags and eat cake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

*waves flags and eats cake*

And I agree with your last excellent post, Aquarelle.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[maggiemay]

Thanks for the mention of Aquarelle's last contribution, C. Somehow I had missed it this morning.

Well said indeed!

[sbhoa]

As someone from somewhere else in the world with a constitutional monarchy, where the constitutional monarchs have truly misbehaved themselves, it is quite refreshing to see one that actually has tried to devote her life towards actually serving her country.

(I'm much more bah humbug about the Olympics)

I probably won't participate in any of the Jubilee activities as I am allergic to crowds, but I might catch some of it on telly.

Thanks for that, Corenfa.
I feel the same about HM ( - and I have to admit to enjoying the refreshing candour of the Dook! )

Plus I identify pretty closely with your last two sentences.

It's not anti anything for me except for just anti-big crowdy things and anti- hanging around in the street when there are things I'd much rather be doing. This sort of party/paradey stuff feels more like a chore than fun if I find myself having to go.

[anacrusis]

I'm not scoffing at the form of government - but I do have issues with the arguments as set out: ours has been as belligerent a country as any, and I don't actually see the link between our form of government and the episodes of peace or war, one way or the other. It's evolved from something which was very hierarchical and prone to the whims of its monarchs to something which is very much more for its citizens: whilst the monarch meets the government regularly and has his or her say in what's going on, ultimately he or she has no direct means of changing or implementing anything:sure, it exists in theory for the monarch to block an act of parliament, but we all know that doing so would risk triggering moves to get rid of that last power the monarchy has. I find the pomp and circumstance around so many of the traditions somewhat ridiculous, yes, and I'd rather there were not the costly get-ups and peculiar rituals around getting this lot of politicians to visit that lot of politicians so that they can hear the monarch deliver the speech written for them by the government about what they're going to do next year. Yes, it's a re-enactment of history, but does everyone really watch it thinking, gosh yes, it's reminding us all how far we've come, and where it would no longer be sensible for us to be? Rituals make me very uneasy when they're so complicated, they become self-serving and end up replacing the need for thought about it all. I think the argument that "it's always been thus" so often proposed about all sorts of rituals in all sorts of cultures is so very short-sighted: it's been used to justify carrying on with practices which lead to the repression and suppression of various subgroups of communities: whilst I don't think that our constitutional monarchy's odd rituals come into that category, I certainly don't accept that this argument justifies their continuing.

As far as the individuals in the royal family go - I'm not sure why they should have contributed to national stability one way or the other, I fully accept that the queen has been doing the job she does to the best of her ability, but so do millions of the rest of us - teachers, nurses, joiners, painter decorators, bin men, the voluntary sector, you name it. Her intelligent input behind the scenes does not of itself ensure than all in her position will do so. Our working lives are not as long as hers, but then, we're not quite as buffered from the worries of life as she is either. I have very real issues with the idea of anyone putting their family after their other duties, and cannot see that as a virtue: it is however seen as such in British culture more generally, as well I know, having had to try to balance family and work, and found that work deeply resents family commitment. Let us not forget that those of us rearing kids, whilst undoubtedly doing so for our benefit in the first instance, are also rearing the next generation of tax payers who will support all of our generation in their dotage...

I'm a bit bah humbug about some of the Olympic stuff - the flame relay, all the big ceremonies opening and closing it, and again the horrendous expense, but there should at least be some top class sport (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). I will also admit, I'm no party animal, but happy jubilee to those who like that sort of thing.

[Maizie]

I think it's nice we live somewhere we are all allowed our different opinions and allowed to express them and nobody is going to come and chuck a brick through your window because you are at one extreme, or the other, or passionately indifferent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And an extra day off work is always nice - actually four day weekends like this are good because we get to do family visiting (two days) and have a day for chores and then luxury of luxuries have a day to ourselves too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)