How many instruments? Options

[frances]

How many instruments do you think it is possible for teenagers to play to a high enough standard to be accepted at a conservatoire? Are conservatoires looking for students who play a lot of instruments or are they looking for one instrument played extremely well? I have heard that years ago, music students needed to be a high standard on 2 instruments -usually one being piano but believe this has changed now and would be interested to hear others views. It seems to me that the standard is now so high that it is almost impossible to reach the required standard if the students are playing more than 1 instrument.

[andante]

I think they like specialists, but they ask for keyboard literacy. (Usually grade 5 piano equivalent)

[STRINGMUM]

Generally they specialise on one instrument. Son auditioned last year on cello and it was only his cello playing they listened to but he also had to some aural tests too.

The best place to check requirements is the individual consevatoire websites. University requirements may be different.

I'm not sure if multi-instrumentalists can do a joint first study or not again the websites should say.

[onemoretime]

One of my husbands students had offers from all the conservatoires this year. They have grade 8 on 4 instruments. They are multi tallented though, not what I would call the norrm. The student is nearly 19 and last year was offered a place in the one they weren't so keen on after auditioning at them all. I use (they) incase the student could be recognised, as it does seem an odd case. Also they received a phone call from the head of course at the one they chose begging them not to go anywhere else. I don't think this is normal either. So my point is I don't think there is a norm and expect the unexpected.

[serendipity]

Our experience is that they want one instrument at a really high level. Some seen keener than others on having good keyboard skills, but I'm not sure this is ever a deal-breaker if the first study is strong enough.

I know some places have offered joint study, but officially most discourage this. Certainly at all the open days we have attended in the last few years, any talk of joint study is downplayed - the reasoning being that one study is hard enough work, and many who start off with two will in fact drop one fairly early on.

As to mult-instrumentalists, our experience (i.e. friends of my children, or those my daughter has met at conservatoire), is that few people can keep more than one instrument going to a level high enough to meet conservatoire standard. We know some who had 4 or more Grade 8s, but did not get into conservatoire, and some who were very high standard in more than one instrument but only received offers in the rarer of the instruments.

In fact, that has been a tactic for some we know - audition on more than one instrument and see what offers arise. This works for some people. However we do know of one girl who has ended up studying recorder which she doesn't really enjoy very much, because she didn't get any places for her other two (more common) instruments.

[FullofWind]

I would have thought conservatoires would be put off by multiple instruments. I assume it would show that the applicant is not dedicated to following a particular path. It's also not a big feat for an older teenager to get to grade 8 within a year on an instrument if they already have grade 8+ on other instruments. I would be disappointed if my child was grade 8 on three wind instruments but fairly average at piano. I think it is better to dedicate ones time to the principal instrument and keyboard. Any time taken away from improving keyboard skills is a huge waste of time.

One may argue that multiple instruments are beneficial for teaching but I know of one student who have recently graduated and they taught themselves oboe, flute and clarinet to grade 8 within a year so to supplement their teaching income. Apparently this is not uncommon.

[sbhoa]

One may argue that multiple instruments are beneficial for teaching but I know of one student who have recently graduated and they taught themselves oboe, flute and clarinet to grade 8 within a year so to supplement their teaching income. Apparently this is not uncommon.

But wouldn't they be better placed to pass on good technique on those instruments if they's had teaching and taken longer?

[FullofWind]

One may argue that multiple instruments are beneficial for teaching but I know of one student who have recently graduated and they taught themselves oboe, flute and clarinet to grade 8 within a year so to supplement their teaching income. Apparently this is not uncommon.

But wouldn't they be better placed to pass on good technique on those instruments if they's had teaching and taken longer?

There main aim isn't to be a teacher though so they are not motivated by passing on the best technique in instruments that are not their principal. When I said she taught herself she did so with the help of her fellow conservatoire students who were already being shown the best technique.

[sbhoa]

One may argue that multiple instruments are beneficial for teaching but I know of one student who have recently graduated and they taught themselves oboe, flute and clarinet to grade 8 within a year so to supplement their teaching income. Apparently this is not uncommon.

But wouldn't they be better placed to pass on good technique on those instruments if they's had teaching and taken longer?

There main aim isn't to be a teacher though so they are not motivated by passing on the best technique in instruments that are not their principal. When I said she taught herself she did so with the help of her fellow conservatoire students who were already being shown the best technique.

Too bad for the student who have a teacher who isn't interested in teaching.....

Does it actually matter what musical achievements you children manage if they are enjoying what they are doing? If that's not the first criteria what's the point? So what if it's a different set of instruments than you feel is ideal?

[FullofWind]

One may argue that multiple instruments are beneficial for teaching but I know of one student who have recently graduated and they taught themselves oboe, flute and clarinet to grade 8 within a year so to supplement their teaching income. Apparently this is not uncommon.

But wouldn't they be better placed to pass on good technique on those instruments if they's had teaching and taken longer?

There main aim isn't to be a teacher though so they are not motivated by passing on the best technique in instruments that are not their principal. When I said she taught herself she did so with the help of her fellow conservatoire students who were already being shown the best technique.

Too bad for the student who have a teacher who isn't interested in teaching.....

Does it actually matter what musical achievements you children manage if they are enjoying what they are doing? If that's not the first criteria what's the point? So what if it's a different set of instruments than you feel is ideal?

The OP was asking what conservatoires were looking for, not what matters to parents. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[andante]

Certainly at the RNCM open day they stressed that joint first study was almost unheard of and rarely lasted for long. I haven't been to any other Conservatoire open days, so can't comment on whether that is the general view.

[Scooby Doo]

The safest bet is a high standard on first study, supported by decent keyboard skills (level will vary depend on which conservatoire you are looking at). Ultimately, you can only really specialise in one instrument, so while it is fun to play multiple instruments, it is unlikely to influence offers from conservatoires. The standard of the first study instrument is the top priority.

Once you have a couple of grade 8s, it seems a bit pointless to carry on collecting them on multiple instruments.

[tonedeafmum]

Does it actually matter what musical achievements you children manage if they are enjoying what they are doing? If that's not the first criteria what's the point? So what if it's a different set of instruments than you feel is ideal?

I agree completely that people should play the instruments they love - rather than be influenced by what is sought after, or a particular combination that is considered most beneficial etc. But what if your child is a multi instrumentalist by nature but also wants to go to conservatoire. Should the parent advise that the young person 'lay off' supplementary instruments until later, or is there a place at conservatoire for that particular musical type? From what people are saying - it would seem not.

[just in case any of my multi instrumentalist daughter's teachers are reading this - don't panic, she isn't thinking about conservatoire - in fact I'm not sure she knows what one is - she's still contentedly dabbling and would rather go and work for Choccywoccydoodah - I'm just nosey!]

I saw the recorderist player on Young Musician saying she still hadn't chosen between piano, violin and recorder and I wondered just how soon she would be expected to decide.

[andante]

My daughter took up her third instrument when she was grade 8 on her first and grade 7 on the second. We didn't expect her to take it very far as it was just so that she could join in with different musical activities at school. Within 18 months she had a grade 8 distinction (to our astonishment). She no longer has lessons on that as she wanted to concentrate on the other two, but hasn't decided which of those two is first study yet. (It depends on the weather or some other variable) She didn't feel that she could do justice to all three.

[notmusimum]

One may argue that multiple instruments are beneficial for teaching but I know of one student who have recently graduated and they taught themselves oboe, flute and clarinet to grade 8 within a year so to supplement their teaching income. Apparently this is not uncommon.

But wouldn't they be better placed to pass on good technique on those instruments if they's had teaching and taken longer?

There main aim isn't to be a teacher though so they are not motivated by passing on the best technique in instruments that are not their principal. When I said she taught herself she did so with the help of her fellow conservatoire students who were already being shown the best technique.

Too bad for the student who have a teacher who isn't interested in teaching.....

Does it actually matter what musical achievements you children manage if they are enjoying what they are doing? If that's not the first criteria what's the point? So what if it's a different set of instruments than you feel is ideal?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Some poor parent will be expected to pay them for lessons too.

Certainly at the RNCM open day they stressed that joint first study was almost unheard of and rarely lasted for long. I haven't been to any other Conservatoire open days, so can't comment on whether that is the general view.

They also said sax players were expected to develop flute and clarinet skills though not as joint first studies.....

As a parent of an unplanned multi-instrumentalist I'm not quite sure where I sit on this one. At the moment one of daughters instruments is being developed more than the rest but the others seem to be improving in the wake of that focused practice.

I do think having more than one grade 8 will make it easier to develop a related instrument to that standard for example sax/clarinet (though I tend to think people are one or the other and not both). It's less easy if you are a single reed player to build a double reed or flute quickly. My daughter has often been told that sax and oboe are not good to double on but it's flute she finds difficult after playing sax. A lot will depend on the persons musicality and they may well be able to play quite musically with weaker technique and do well at grade 8. I'm not sure that's a good basis to teach on.

Daughter has been able to sort of maintain her instruments though they are not all equal. Possibly the fact she's played them all for so long has helped in this. I expect for conservatoire that she will have one main instrument and the others will be used as and when required. They will probably be a bonus but I'm not sure they will influence much at audition (maybe more some places than others).